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Demeter Club

#301
walbassist said:
Hello all

My Bass 400 arrived yesterday. It's a used unit but in 100% mint condition. I had the 800 before but like an idiot sold it, so I'm really glad to have that sound back again.

Can someone please remind me how I set the trim pot to get the optimal setting for my basses (1 x passive, 1 x active). I seem to recall maxed out is not recommended, and that noon is the factory default, but how does one determine what is "just right" for their basses?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
My COMPLETELY non-scientific unsupported choice was to put the trim at 3 o’clock, where off is at 7 o’clock, factory is at 12 o’clock, and full on is at 5 o’clock.

My rationale was that....well, it’s an amp. So, the purpose is to amplify, Therefore, I want the maximum clean gain I can get. I have some pretty high output instruments; and as long as I put the high output basses into the Active input, everything stays clean with the trim setting I chose. that’s as afar as I have taken it.

One other thing: the Bass 400 is pretty sensitive to tube choice. James ships with the Electro-Harmonix 12AX7, which is a very good tube. But, I have replaced that with a Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 Reissue, and like that a bit better.

Hope that helps.
 
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#302
tombowlus said:
Looks like James may be moving into the home audio world:

View attachment 3944684
Click to expand...
Not surprising.

My sense talking to James in the past year or so was that he has been getting increasingly discouraged by the bass guitar market; because the pro players, who have been his primary customer base, have been forced to go ampless. That is partly why his interest in the 1200W power sections evaporated. I think he could still produce an interesting preamp/DI using the original 2 tube VTBP w/Jensen circuit in a minimal footprint. But, that niche doesn’t seem to have caught his attention.

Also, let’s face it, he has fully paid his dues and is thinking about what niches he wants to pursue in a geared down retirement mode, similarly to Roger Sadowsky.

So, yeah, I think we may have seen what we are going to see from James, bass guitar-wise.
 
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#304
bucephylus said:
My COMPLETELY non-scientific unsupported choice was to put the trim at 3 o’clock, where off is at 7 o’clock, factory is at 12 o’clock, and full on is at 5 o’clock.

My rationale was that....well, it’s an amp. So, the purpose is to amplify, Therefore, I want the maximum clean gain I can get. I have some pretty high output instruments; and as long as I put the high output basses into the Active input, everything stays clean with the trim setting I chose. that’s as afar as I have taken it.

One other thing: the Bass 400 is pretty sensitive to tube choice. James ships with the Electro-Harmonix 12AX7, which is a very good tube. But, I have replaced that with a Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 Reissue, and like that a bit better.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks again! I am curious to know what I would hear if the trim pot was set to high though? Is it like the gain knob on the outside of a normal amp (i.e. turn it up until it distorts when you play hard, then back it off), or does it manifest itself in some other way?
 
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#305
walbassist said:
Yes, thanks again! I am curious to know what I would hear if the trim pot was set to high though? Is it like the gain knob on the outside of a normal amp (i.e. turn it up until it distorts when you play hard, then back it off), or does it manifest itself in some other way?
Click to expand...
Yes, if the input trim is too little (full on), then that can distort the input stage. From my somewhat hazy recall, backing off from Full up doesn’t cut the input gain by much, but gives you just a little margin for headroom. The amp will be plenty powerful at that setting.

I will say that that if your intention is to create some distortion, you will likely get better results using an upstream pedal. I’ve been using the Creation Audio Labs Grizzly for that purpose, and have had excellent performance from that particular pedal.
 
#306
bucephylus said:
Yes, if the input trim is too little (full on), then that can distort the input stage. From my somewhat hazy recall, backing off from Full up doesn’t cut the input gain by much, but gives you just a little margin for headroom. The amp will be plenty powerful at that setting.

I will say that that if your intention is to create some distortion, you will likely get better results using an upstream pedal.
Click to expand...

Perfect. That helps a bunch! And no fear, it's all about the cleans for me :hyper:

EDIT: Just set the amp for both my basses. Cranked everything up full and played as hard as I could and it still kept clean with the trim pot dimed. Rolled it back to 3 o'clock as per above just to be on the safe side.
 
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#309
Hey Demeter brethren . . . and sistren, maybe?

I'm in, for sure. I have been on an endless quest for a great pedalboard tone, and recently decided to plug in the old VTBP-201s that I used years ago again to see how it stacked up. I never should have put this thing in the closet. It really is fantastic.

I'm hoping you can give me some clarification on tube swapping. I need/want to replace the stock tubes. There are other threads dedicated to Demeter tube rolling, but the information in them is conflicting and confusing (at least to me) because they interchangeably discuss the 201 and 201s and the 201-800D or something like that (the power amp version) in making tube recommendations. I would not be so bold as to presume that all three (or more) varieties would use the same or similar tubes. But maybe they do.

Could someone please clarify for me if the VTBP-201s . . . specifically . . . uses two 12ax7 tubes. Or a 12ax7 in V1 and a 12at7 in V2, or does it not matter? Can you pretty much swap in whatever you want? If it does use the same designation of tube, should the tubes be the same exact tube? For example, two Mullard 12ax7? Or should you mix and match?

Thanks
 
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#310
jacoby75 said:
Hey Demeter brethren . . . and sistren, maybe?

I'm in, for sure. I have been on an endless quest for a great pedalboard tone, and recently decided to plug in the old VTBP-201s that I used years ago again to see how it stacked up. I never should have put this thing in the closet. It really is fantastic.

I'm hoping you can give me some clarification on tube swapping. I need/want to replace the stock tubes. There are other threads dedicated to Demeter tube rolling, but the information in them is conflicting and confusing (at least to me) because they interchangeably discuss the 201 and 201s and the 201-800D or something like that (the power amp version) in making tube recommendations. I would not be so bold as to presume that all three (or more) varieties would use the same or similar tubes. But maybe they do.

Could someone please clarify for me if the VTBP-201s . . . specifically . . . uses two 12ax7 tubes. Or a 12ax7 in V1 and a 12at7 in V2, or does it not matter? Can you pretty much swap in whatever you want? If it does use the same designation of tube, should the tubes be the same exact tube? For example, two Mullard 12ax7? Or should you mix and match?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Right? The pedal board preamp/DI’s are certainly improving; but, they aren’t quite yet up to what the rack preamps produce. At least, that’s my experience so far.

Welcome to the fold.

Regarding tube types, I have previously explained the V1 and V2 tech in previous posts, here:
Demeter Club
....and in the linked post there.

That should explain the V1 and V2 types. Post up if you still have Q’s.

As far as tube choice goes...that is a bottomless well. For production tubes, James uses the Electro Harmonix 12AX7 as a standard. That is a great tube, no doubt. For a bit more coin, I like the Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 Reissue; and that’s what I have been using for about the past 8 months or so.

The VTBP preamp is remarkably sensitive to the specific tube choice; and there are a whole slew of great NOS tubes out there. Here is a decent reference to whet your appetite:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I have never found the information there to be misleading; and have a number of the tubes discussed there in my inventory.

Regarding the V1 and V2 tubes, we have had some disagreement about which is what etc in past posting. But, discussing the topic with James, the tone mainly seems to develop in V1, the primary preamp tube, with V2 being somewhat less sensitive to tube specifics. V2 mainly drives the Jensen output, either to the DI and/or to any onboard power stage, if you chose to do a retrofit. V2 does contribute to some extent; and the amps which have a SS power stage driver instead of V2, such as the 400D and the 800D do have a quicker / less “bloomy” character.

Last point to consider is that the Bass 400 in a dove cage format is only marginally larger than some of the current pedal board preamps.....Just sayin’.
 
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#311
bucephylus said:
Right? The pedal board preamp/DI’s are certainly improving; but, they aren’t quite yet up to what the rack preamps produce. At least, that’s my experience so far.

Welcome to the fold.

Regarding tube types, I have previously explained the V1 and V2 tech in previous posts, here:
Demeter Club
....and in the linked post there.

That should explain the V1 and V2 types. Post up if you still have Q’s.

As far as tube choice goes...that is a bottomless well. For production tubes, James uses the Electro Harmonix 12AX7 as a standard. That is a great tube, no doubt. For a bit more coin, I like the Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 Reissue; and that’s what I have been using for about the past 8 months or so.

The VTBP preamp is remarkably sensitive to the specific tube choice; and there are a whole slew of great NOS tubes out there. Here is a decent reference to whet your appetite:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I have never found the information there to be misleading; and have a number of the tubes discussed there in my inventory.

Regarding the V1 and V2 tubes, we have had some disagreement about which is what etc in past posting. But, discussing the topic with James, the tone mainly seems to develop in V1, the primary preamp tube, with V2 being somewhat less sensitive to tube specifics. V2 mainly drives the Jensen output, either to the DI and/or to any onboard power stage, if you chose to do a retrofit. V2 does contribute to some extent; and the amps which have a SS power stage driver instead of V2, such as the 400D and the 800D do have a quicker / less “bloomy” character.

Last point to consider is that the Bass 400 in a dove cage format is only marginally larger than some of the current pedal board preamps.....Just sayin’.
Click to expand...
Thank you for all the info. My VTBP-201s is stock, so I'm gonna look for some swell 12ax7's to slip in it. So let the tube rolling begin! I've tube rolled in some preamp pedals that I've tried in recent months, but not in the Demeter. Thanks.
 
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#312
jacoby75 said:
Thank you for all the info. My VTBP-201s is stock, so I'm gonna look for some swell 12ax7's to slip in it. So let the tube rolling begin! I've tube rolled in some preamp pedals that I've tried in recent months, but not in the Demeter. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Have fun. I have a Tung Sol Gold in V1 now and I like it better than the JJ I found in the preamp when i bought it, which already sounded really good.
 
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#313
dirkcalloway said:
Have fun. I have a Tung Sol Gold in V1 now and I like it better than the JJ I found in the preamp when i bought it, which already sounded really good.
Click to expand...
Yes, this ^

I had a chance to do a little tube swapping this weekend. For lack of anywhere better to start, I tried those same tubes. A Tung Sol gold and a JJ gold 12ax7. My VTBP-201s currently has EXH 12ax7's in it. They're fine. A nice, well-rounded tube. No weird noises or artifacts. I swapped the JJ into V1 and Tung Sol into V2. (left to right, facing the front of the preamp.) There was a slight improvement. But because it wasn't a terribly controlled experiment, I'm not sure which was making the biggest improvement. Having the JJ in V1 or the TS in V2. But either way, the resulting tone was an improvement over the EHX's. A bit more oomph in the midrange and a nice, even tone.

But . . . . then I put the TS gold in V1 and the JJ in V2. Holy cow! I'm loving the TS. It's much warmer and fuller sounding than either the EHX or the JJ in V1. A slightly subdued high end (like, not glassy sounding to my ears, which I like). Just warm and fat. Like me in August. I left the TS in V1 and swapped one of the EHX's back into V2, and the tone suffered ever so slightly. It felt a bit weaker. So I think the combination of the TS and JJ is the way to go for now. Though, now that I love the TS, it would probably be even better with two TS's instead of the JJ. But the JJ in V2 sounds great as well. I know that V1 is the primary tone-influencing slot.

Thanks for the tip. I'll hang on to the EHX's as a backup for the time being. I think if I were a jazz guy, I'd want something a bit more subdued like the JJ or the EHX's. But because I'm currently going through a classic rock, blues, jam rock, etc. phase, the TSGold is a great fit.
 
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#317
Stewart13 said:
Paging all VTBP-201s owners! What overdrive pedal have you found that works best with this preamp? Thinking I’m going to build a really small pedalboard with a few pedals. OD being one of them.
Click to expand...
Being back to the VTBP201s is new to me, but so far my Tech21 YYZ sounds fantastic.
 
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#320
Back when I used to roll tubes in mv VTBP, VTBP201 and HBP, I found the Sovtek 12AX7LPS to complement the tonal voicing of the demeter preamps very well. Smooth, deep, crisp on top but not zingy. Very nice for its availability and pricepoint. Of course the NOS Telefunken sounded better :)

I should mess around with my HB600 some more, I think I have a TS Gold here somewhere, I think currently it has a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy it, which is OK but not amazing.
 
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