Demeter Club

[bucephylus]

Back when I used to roll tubes in mv VTBP, VTBP201 and HBP, I found the Sovtek 12AX7LPS to complement the tonal voicing of the demeter preamps very well. Smooth, deep, crisp on top but not zingy. Very nice for its availability and pricepoint. Of course the NOS Telefunken sounded better

I should mess around with my HB600 some more, I think I have a TS Gold here somewhere, I think currently it has a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy it, which is OK but not amazing.

My experience with the Amperex tubes is that they are very clear and articulate; but, there are other tubes with more cajones for bass. I do use the Amperex in the V2 position for that reason.

 

[Scott Lynch]

Hi everyone! I was wondering if someone could help me understand how the internal trim pot and volume control interact on these amps.

• What does the internal trimpot control? Input gain? Output volume? Something Else?
• What does the "Volume" control on the amp control?
• How do you like to set these controls?
• Is there a OD/Clip indicator in the amp? If not, how do you know if the signal is too hot (or low, I guess?) for the amp?
• Given that there's only one overall level control that's intended to be easily adjusted, how do you deal with multiple basses, especially those of different output levels, or, for example, running effects that may temporarily boost the input signal?

I know there are a small handful of amp designs, like the SVT-VR, for instance, that lack separate input and output controls. I'm just not used to this, having always owned amps with separate gain and master controls. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated!

 

[bucephylus]

Hi everyone! I was wondering if someone could help me understand how the internal trim pot and volume control interact on these amps.

• What does the internal trimpot control? Input gain? Output volume? Something Else?
• What does the "Volume" control on the amp control?
• How do you like to set these controls?
• Is there a OD/Clip indicator in the amp? If not, how do you know if the signal is too hot (or low, I guess?) for the amp?
• Given that there's only one overall level control that's intended to be easily adjusted, how do you deal with multiple basses, especially those of different output levels, or, for example, running effects that may temporarily boost the input signal?

I know there are a small handful of amp designs, like the SVT-VR, for instance, that lack separate input and output controls. I'm just not used to this, having always owned amps with separate gain and master controls. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated!

Really great Q!

First, I don’t have the schematic, so can’t 100% say where the internal trim is in the circuit. That said, I believe the trim pot mainly acts on the preamp OUTPUT. You use it to adjust the overall output amplitude to match whatever power amp is connected.

Here is a thread that discusses this point in greater detail.
Question for Demeter VTBP-201S

 

[emjazz]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but has any one had issues with the Demeter VTBP-M-800D having only a volume knob without a separate gain and master volume? Or does the amp sound the same throughout the range of the volume knob, with no effect on pushing the tubes more? Thanks.

 

[Matt R]

I've been playing Jim Demeter's bass amps for a bazillion years and I've never missed having gain and master. The amps are very responsive to playing dynamics and technique. Beautiful sounding amplifiers.

 

[emjazz]

I've been playing Jim Demeter's bass amps for a bazillion years and I've never missed having gain and master. The amps are very responsive to playing dynamics and technique. Beautiful sounding amplifiers.

With the preamps you go into a power amp that has it's own master volume. With the integrated amps, you don't have this. That's why I ask.

 

[Matt R]

I'm hip, I've owned several Ampeg SVT's through the years with a setup you are describing. I've never missed the separate gain stage.

 

[bucephylus]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but has any one had issues with the Demeter VTBP-M-800D having only a volume knob without a separate gain and master volume? Or does the amp sound the same throughout the range of the volume knob, with no effect on pushing the tubes more? Thanks.

AFAIK, the Demeter circuits are designed to run clean, and are designed to have max clean headspace. You can put drive / distortion circuits in front of them. I use the CAL Grizzly when I want that “effect.” Otherwise, I am unaware of the VTBP circuits being friendly to the pushed tube thing. Sorry, wish I had a better answer for you.

 

[J.Wolf]

clean tube all the way. I prefer the clean tube palette that I can add grit to from either a pedal or tube pedal pre.

As far as gain and master, I have an HB600 which has only a gain (the master is internal, in a trimpot - I have it at 90% and never touch it) and I have never felt the need to gain stage it separately as I do with other amps. Its very consistent and doesnt "open up" above a certain gain level like some do. Demeters are known for having just whats needed and nothing more, control wise.

 

[jacoby75]

AFAIK, the Demeter circuits are designed to run clean, and are designed to have max clean headspace. You can put drive / distortion circuits in front of them. I use the CAL Grizzly when I want that “effect.” Otherwise, I am unaware of the VTBP circuits being friendly to the pushed tube thing. Sorry, wish I had a better answer for you.

I believe this to be the case. I've never pushed my VTBP-201s to overdrive. I don't know that it sounds any better the louder you turn it up. My only niggle is that I wish it had a separate volume control for the DI output, because if you want it louder on stage (and have your power amp maxed out) and turn up the level on the VTBP, it also turns up the level you're sending to the house. But it's workable.

 

[J.Wolf]

My only niggle is that I wish it had a separate volume control for the DI output,

Same here. The only reason I ever want a separate volume/DI send control.

Although since my HBP doesnt have a Jensen, I usually run a preamp out line to an external DI or Tube DI, so I dont unintentionally fry my amp when the FOH guys ensures me that phantom power is turned off when its not.

 

[bucephylus]

Same here. The only reason I ever want a separate volume/DI send control.

Although since my HBP doesnt have a Jensen, I usually run a preamp out line to an external DI or Tube DI, so I dont unintentionally fry my amp when the FOH guys ensures me that phantom power is turned off when its not.

Putting a JDI on the output to the board is basically the same thing; so, you’re good.

 

[bucephylus]

I believe this to be the case. I've never pushed my VTBP-201s to overdrive. I don't know that it sounds any better the louder you turn it up. My only niggle is that I wish it had a separate volume control for the DI output, because if you want it louder on stage (and have your power amp maxed out) and turn up the level on the VTBP, it also turns up the level you're sending to the house. But it's workable.

I tend to use the “Flat” output setting whenever using a backline amp for exactly this reason. I don’t believe “Flat” is affected by the volume control, is it? I use “EQ” whenever going ampless.

Also, I always run my power amp maxed out, even when playing at lower volumes.

 

[J.Wolf]

Putting a JDI on the output to the board is basically the same thing; so, you’re good.

thats precisely what I do. i keep my JDI velcro'd to the inside of the rack that holds my HB600 so that its always there when I need it. Doesnt address the independent DI volume issue though, so I often will use my Sonic Farm for DI and run thru to the Dem for my stage volume and tone. It sounds pretty darn good. The tone on this is part Sonic Farm, part Demeter>JDI.

 

[bucephylus]

thats precisely what I do. i keep my JDI velcro'd to the inside of the rack that holds my HB600 so that its always there when I need it. Doesnt address the independent DI volume issue though, so I often will use my Sonic Farm for DI and run thru to the Dem for my stage volume and tone. It sounds pretty darn good. The tone on this is part Sonic Farm, part Demeter>JDI.

Killer!

 

[J.Wolf]

Killer!

The HB600 is a cold dead hands amplifier for me. It sounds better to me than most anything else I hear in my travels. its old, heavy, big, and I'll gladly drag it around for its tone and features. I'd rather have this one with the Mosfet than an HB with a Minnie, which apparently isnt possible in a 1u chassis anyways.

 

[CTC564]

My new to me Demeter amp loving it so far...running it through a pair of Baer ML-112 cabs

 

[CaptainWally]

Wise oracles of the Demeter,

Does the VTBP-M-400D sound pretty much identical to the VTBP-M-800D?

I sold my 800, and now I miss it. The 800D didn't really work for me in the mix very well. IME, it got a bit buried. The EQ points are pretty kooky and limited. And lack of mute + post-EQ DI w/o volume change are not ideal.

But I have never enjoyed the sound of an amp more in solo and less raucous situations. Having no fan is a bonus for solo/noodling situations.

So I'm thinking of getting the 400D for home use, DI/recording and more civilized live situations.

But will it sound as good as the 800D?

Cheers.

 

[bucephylus]

Wise oracles of the Demeter,

Does the VTBP-M-400D sound pretty much identical to the VTBP-M-800D?

I sold my 800, and now I miss it. The 800D didn't really work for me in the mix very well. IME, it got a bit buried. The EQ points are pretty kooky and limited. And lack of mute + post-EQ DI w/o volume change are not ideal.

But I have never enjoyed the sound of an amp more in solo and less raucous situations. Having no fan is a bonus for solo/noodling situations.

So I'm thinking of getting the 400D for home use, DI/recording and more civilized live situations.

But will it sound as good as the 800D?

Cheers.

The preamp is pretty much in the same ballpark.

The main difference is that the Bass 400 (and Bass 800) use a SS component to drive the power stage; while the VTBP-M-800D uses a 12AY7 to drive the power stage. The result is that, side by side, the 400 is just a little bit quicker and not quite as thick. But, you need to be in a quiet studio and really listening to hear the difference.

I find the Bass 400 is actually pretty practical. On a cab, it punches well above what you would think that power section would do. I’ve actually put it on my Berg NV610, and it drives that cab just fine; well enough to do gigs. Also, the Bass 400 makes a fantastic ampless preamp/DI; but, if possible, get the Jensen option.

The Bass 400 is a great piece of kit. It is NOT as awesome as it’s bigger brother VTBP-M-800. But, it’s small size and versatility make it really useful. IME.

 

[CaptainWally]

The preamp is pretty much in the same ballpark.

The main difference is that the Bass 400 (and Bass 800) use a SS component to drive the power stage; while the VTBP-M-800D uses a 12AY7 to drive the power stage. The result is that, side by side, the 400 is just a little bit quicker and not quite as thick. But, you need to be in a quiet studio and really listening to hear the difference.

I find the Bass 400 is actually pretty practical. On a cab, it punches well above what you would think that power section would do. I’ve actually put it on my Berg NV610, and it drives that cab just fine; well enough to do gigs. Also, the Bass 400 makes a fantastic ampless preamp/DI; but, if possible, get the Jensen option.

The Bass 400 is a great piece of kit. It is NOT as awesome as it’s bigger brother VTBP-M-800. But, it’s small size and versatility make it really useful. IME.

Thank you! Dang, that makes it tough. The small size and lower price are alluring, but I would hate to give up anything about what I loved in the 800.