This is a nice synthesis of recent research.
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Developing Light Skin in Europe
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
This is a nice synthesis of recent research.
I'd like to think that, although there are some details that are recent discoveries, that most people would be aware of the the fact that modern humans originated from Africa and had dark skin. From that, it's a simple deduction that the humans who migrated to the extreme northern regions eventually lost their pigment.
I said I'd like to think.
But I know they don't teach interesting or even factual topics like this in our schools and most people don't search this type of stuff put on their own.
Thanks for posting that.
I said I'd like to think.
But I know they don't teach interesting or even factual topics like this in our schools and most people don't search this type of stuff put on their own.
Thanks for posting that.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
As a CroMagnon, that video makes me feel special! Kinda. And obsolete. And really pale. I wonder about the evolution of hair texture as well.
And for the record, I have no inkling how to categorize people.
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That’s the irony, CroMagnon was actually fresh out of Africa and not fair complexioned. They had not yet made the adaptation to better vitamin D absorbing skin.
It’s fascinating how little time our particular brand of primate has been around relative to our predecessors.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I'm an evolved (devolved?) CroMagnon.
I suppose you are latitudinally appropriate CroMagnon.
It's interesting how siblings with the same parents can sometimes have widely varying skin tones.
Very interesting, and I loved the mellow delivery. Kept my attention without constantly trying to capture my attention!
It is a very interesting topic.
All humans are practically identical, from a genetic point of view. It takes an almost immeasurable genetic difference to create what we see as polar opposites in appearance between humans. So, slightly different features among siblings isn't even a drop in the bucket. We are less than 2% different than a chimp, genetically and they are a completely different species.
And we share 70% of mouse genes, as a reference. Only a 30% to go from a mouse to a human. I said it twice 'cause that's wild.
So, we may seem like we are very diverse as a species, but only in appearance. From a genetics standpoint, you can hardly tell humans apart.
AKA "skin cancer susceptible skin". Sigh. Always tradeoffs involved. Amazing that Vitamin D is important enough to be worth the increased risk.
I built a small dart frog exhibit at work a while back and in doing so, I learned quite a bit about dart frogs and their care, etc. (I also still maintain it).
One of the things I learned is that within a certain species of frog, the Tinctorius in northern S america for example, there can be a wide variety of color variations. Small, isolated pockets of the frogs develop their own distinct coloration and they rarely interact with the next population over. When they do bump into each other at their borders, they recognize their color differences and they will either fight or avoid each other. However, they are genetically all the same frog and can breed. I always thought that was interesting and immediately think of humans.
Another interesting thought is, frogs have an ancient, primitive brain. It really only performs basic functions. Yet, even frogs display tribal behavior.
Not to make excuses for humans, but some behaviors are burned into our animal brain. It may take a little more time to completely transcend it with intellect.
One of the things I learned is that within a certain species of frog, the Tinctorius in northern S america for example, there can be a wide variety of color variations. Small, isolated pockets of the frogs develop their own distinct coloration and they rarely interact with the next population over. When they do bump into each other at their borders, they recognize their color differences and they will either fight or avoid each other. However, they are genetically all the same frog and can breed. I always thought that was interesting and immediately think of humans.
Another interesting thought is, frogs have an ancient, primitive brain. It really only performs basic functions. Yet, even frogs display tribal behavior.
Not to make excuses for humans, but some behaviors are burned into our animal brain. It may take a little more time to completely transcend it with intellect.
The interesting thing is that it is never either/or with humans. Humans fear difference while also having sex with those they find different in huge numbers. Sometimes sex can be an act war (rape as genocide,) or it can be a way of establishing dominance (slave masters impregnating slaves,) as well as peaceful mixture. One of the most interesting things that DNA studies have shown was that when their were multiple human species, mating between species was quite common. All modern varieties of humans carry DNA from multiple archaic human species.
It may be the exact same phenomenon you're observing.
Or, you might be conflating superficially similar phenomena, each with its own explanation, different from the other. There may be an evolutionary reason for different frog populations not to mingle, different from any cause for similar human behaviours. Also, the two may or may not be ingrained at different neurological levels.
You make a good point, but I want to make clear that I'm not writing a scientific paper on the subject. It was just something that reminded me of something else. No scientific connection.
I think my point was, it's unlikely that 2 groups of frogs will evolve intellectually and one day they will say to each other: "hey man, we're all the same,...let's just drop the color crap and hang out".
Humans are a little further along, but we still have one foot in primordial pool.
There are natural mechanisms in the frogs that recognize and acknowledge a frog that is colored differently. Those mechanisms, whatever they are, cause them to interact differently with those frogs than frogs of their own color.
Are they the exact same mechanisms that cause humans to behave in very similar ways? I don't know. I just saw one behavior and it reminded me of the other and I made a point about how frogs can't help it,.....but humans can. Well,... Humans are about halfway there. We still have some evolving to do. But this stuff takes time.
The number 1 theme with humans that I observe across the board,.....
we're always fighting about the wrong things
we're always fighting about the wrong things
In future eaters, Tim Flannery reasons that there was a distinct shift in skin color, determined primarily by the tides. We were, he argues, early on, land-based organisms, fearing the great water, and all our sustenance therefore, whether we were hunting, gathering, or farming, was gained during the cooler hours, from the land, when life is easier.
Melanin is released to form darker skin as a protection against radiation, as is revealed in OP's clip. But, when your culture has been forced to the margins, because of population growth, over time, the oceans become your hunting grounds, as a matter of course. Here, you are governed, not by the sun, the dusk and dawn, but by the tides, especially before you learn watercraft tech., where you still must act as land-based organisms.
So, when the tide's low, and it's the middle of the day, you can't afford yourself the luxury of a siesta, ceasing your farming, hunting, and gathering, for a while. Out you must go, into the shallows, with the sun belting down upon you, in order that you may gain your sustenance and feed your village.
Our people, those who stem from these coastal cultures, keep nothing back. All their melanin is released — this is documented — so they can better survive the radiation. Furthermore, the extraordinarily rich protein diet, gleaned especially by fisherfolk, presents us with some very interesting, somewhat novel potentials, like leisure-time, and, consequently, art production — or so the story goes
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Speaking of fighting,....
something I find super fascinating (mostly because it's something I've been thinking about in my own head for 20 yrs) and I've been finding others' research on the subject over the last year or 2...
is what exactly caused the end of the last ice age, new discoveries about civilization prior to and since the last ice age and one little tidbit that stuck out (I'll have to dig it up again), is that there's no evidence of human war, prior to the ice age.
It seems to be a phenomenon that developed in modern humans, after the last global cataclysm.
something I find super fascinating (mostly because it's something I've been thinking about in my own head for 20 yrs) and I've been finding others' research on the subject over the last year or 2...
is what exactly caused the end of the last ice age, new discoveries about civilization prior to and since the last ice age and one little tidbit that stuck out (I'll have to dig it up again), is that there's no evidence of human war, prior to the ice age.
It seems to be a phenomenon that developed in modern humans, after the last global cataclysm.
What I am saying is that there may be no "evolution" necessary: there is precious little colour-based racism in texts from ancient cultures before the establishment of organised slave trade by the Arabs and the Europeans. It appears to be a culture issue, to be resolved within culture alone.
I find the survival of DNA inherited from Neanderthals and Denisovans (and possibly other unattested offshoots of humanity, partially reabsorbed in the same way) in modern humans comforting. It is nice to think they didn't just disappear into nothingness.
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When you say "our" people, are you referring to a specific ethnic group, or humans in general. Because humans in general tend to have the highest population densities in coastal regions, all over the planet.
Which also ties back to my theory about the a sudden and catastrophic rise in sea level at the end of the last ice age. Which likely destroyed much of civilization and survivors scattered inland. Which likely sent us back to the stone age and made us war-like in fighting for resources/survival.
