Developing Light Skin in Europe

[Gaolee]

Eventually, the poles will flip. I don't know why, but apparently, it happens. When it does that, what does it mean, aside from a magnetic compass pointing the other way? And then there will be the inundation of coasts due to changes in the climate for various reasons. There will be large swaths of currently inhabited land that won't be land any more, leaving a whole lot of people either drowned, or more likely, completely displaced. The land that's left will have less fresh water.

I think that's a more likely scenario than another ice age. Humans will survive, though. There are still hunter-gatherer societies in various parts of the world, and relatively non-technical subsistence farmers all over the place. Humans won't survive in places like Siberia for very long, at least not people who are not both socially and physically adapted to those kinds of climates. Same with deserts. The remaining inhabited land will be fairly small, which means that the fact that populations are shrinking in various parts of the world and growth rates are way down across the board is a good omen. It means that the likelihood of survival by any individual alive when whatever happens happens is higher. Cold comfort, perhaps.

We have an archaeological record back a certain amount, and then it disappears into not much. There could have been fairly advanced civilizations that got wiped out 40,000 years ago that we haven't discovered. Flood stories exist in most cultures, and there's always the Atlantis myth that's another flood story. In another 40,000 years, the remains of current humans will probably be easier to find, due to much higher volume. It could be equally mysterious, though. If there's a climate or other cataclysm that sends humans back to square one and eliminates people who rely on a much larger society to stay alive, meaning most of us here, then those people who dig up the evidence of our society will have all kinds of strange puzzles to figure out.

Time to get to work and stop thinking about how fascinating the apocalypse will be! It has nothing to do with melanin, except peripherally, since I would expect that in a warming world, a bit more melanin would be better than a bit less from an evolutionary standpoint. But then cloud cover might be dense enough to create other pressures. More speculation and probably a sci-fi story for somebody else to write. I have an imagination but not much creativity.

 

[RichterScale]

It's estimated that if every last bit of ice left on earth were to melt, sea level would rise another 230' or so. But that includes all of Antarctica and all the ice/glaciers on all the mountains. Not very likely. The end of the last ice age was brought on suddenly. The cause is debated, but there's new evidence in Greenland to support a large impact. Anyway, the last time the ice melted, sea levels rose 3-400'. That took a few thousand years, but at one point, it was sudden, with mass flooding that carved out huge canyons and sea levels rising in bursts, as much as 30' in a 24 hr period in some cases.
That's enough to wipe out quite a bit of the population in a short period of time.
So, if things take a slow, natural progression and there's no help from asteroid impacts or huge solar flares, any additional ice melting will occur slowly and people will have time to pack a bag and move uphill.
Also, there's theories that as the ice melts, it could affect the ocean currents and ultimately weather, which will begin the cycle of heading back to another ice age. It's a cycle that's been repeating over the course of Earth's existence. We're not helping our own situation by polluting our environment, but these things are going to happen whether we exist or not.
That's why I don't send $19 p/month to save polar bears and get a stuffed animal and a calendar. I love animals. I actually feel sad when I see roadkill. I don't want to see polar bears go extinct. And if I could, I'd travel around the planet and hunt poachers. But even if half the world's population donated money, there's nothing anyone can do with that money to stop the climate from changing. So, most of the solutions you see are scams to collect donations or sell a product. And the universe doesn't have a heart. It didn't care about the dinosaurs or the other 99% of species that have come and gone. It doesn't care about us, either.
Anyway, we might see a few feet of sea level rise over 100 years at the current rate (or something around there), but nothing cataclysmic in the forecast.

 

[StereoPlayer]

It's estimated that if every last bit of ice left on earth were to melt, sea level would rise another 230' or so. But that includes all of Antarctica and all the ice/glaciers on all the mountains. Not very likely. The end of the last ice age was brought on suddenly. The cause is debated, but there's new evidence in Greenland to support a large impact. Anyway, the last time the ice melted, sea levels rose 3-400'. That took a few thousand years, but at one point, it was sudden, with mass flooding that carved out huge canyons and sea levels rising in bursts, as much as 30' in a 24 hr period in some cases.
That's enough to wipe out quite a bit of the population in a short period of time.
So, if things take a slow, natural progression and there's no help from asteroid impacts or huge solar flares, any additional ice melting will occur slowly and people will have time to pack a bag and move uphill.
Also, there's theories that as the ice melts, it could affect the ocean currents and ultimately weather, which will begin the cycle of heading back to another ice age. It's a cycle that's been repeating over the course of Earth's existence. We're not helping our own situation by polluting our environment, but these things are going to happen whether we exist or not.
That's why I don't send $19 p/month to save polar bears and get a stuffed animal and a calendar. I love animals. I actually feel sad when I see roadkill. I don't want to see polar bears go extinct. And if I could, I'd travel around the planet and hunt poachers. But even if half the world's population donated money, there's nothing anyone can do with that money to stop the climate from changing. So, most of the solutions you see are scams to collect donations or sell a product. And the universe doesn't have a heart. It didn't care about the dinosaurs or the other 99% of species that have come and gone. It doesn't care about us, either.
Anyway, we might see a few feet of sea level rise over 100 years at the current rate (or something around there), but nothing cataclysmic in the forecast.

It’s only .63 cents a day…

 

[RichterScale]

I would rather invest in something that we can control and have an impact on.
Like moving deer crossing signs.
They put them in the worst spots. Why would you have the deer crossing in the middle of busy roads and highways?

 

[gln1955]

I would rather invest in something that we can control and have an impact on.
Like moving deer crossing signs.
They put them in the worst spots. Why would you have the deer crossing in the middle of busy roads and highways?

Car crossing signs for the deer would be more effective, IMO.

 

[RichterScale]

Another thing that seems outdated and obsolete is how we call every group by their geographical location or culture, but we assign color to Europeans, Africans, European/Americans and African/Americans.
As if the color of the skin is a country, culture or "type" of person.
We used to call Asians "yellow" and Native Americans "red". That didn't stick and seems inappropriate now.
So, why are we still referring to people as "white and black"
I mean, I don't make a fuss or have conversations about it, but when I hear "black people" or "white people", it sounds ignorant and it irritates me a little.
It sounds as stupid as saying something like "I'm a blonde people". Um,...no dear, blonde isn't a type of person, bless your heart.
I dunno, maybe I'm weird, but some things don't make sense and have always sounded odd to me.
But look at the map. Why don't we call everyone on the same latitudes by their skin color? Or, better yet, just stop calling people by their skin color altogether?

 

[RichterScale]

By the logic of using black or white to describe a type of people, then there's only 7 types of people on the planet, according to that map.

 

[Duckherder]

I'd like to think that, although there are some details that are recent discoveries, that most people would be aware of the the fact that modern humans originated from Africa and had dark skin. From that, it's a simple deduction that the humans who migrated to the extreme northern regions eventually lost their pigment.
I said I'd like to think.
But I know they don't teach interesting or even factual topics like this in our schools and most people don't search this type of stuff put on their own.
Thanks for posting that.

I am under the impression that those who lost it migrated, but either way, vitamin D deficiency is deadly.

 

[Duckherder]

My theory is that modern humans started to understand and utilize the benefits of collaboration and large social groups as far back as 50k+ yrs ago.

Yep!
Think of the first healed bone; it means someone cared for that person long enough for them to recover.

 

[turf3]

AKA "skin cancer susceptible skin". Sigh. Always tradeoffs involved. Amazing that Vitamin D is important enough to be worth the increased risk.

Skin cancers that take 30 years to develop are not an evolutionary concern when primitive people were mostly dead by 30.

 

[bholder]

Skin cancers that take 30 years to develop are not an evolutionary concern when primitive people were mostly dead by 30.

OK, but I got it at 20. Particularly susceptible, lucky me.

 

[Duckherder]

Skin cancers that take 30 years to develop are not an evolutionary concern when primitive people were mostly dead by 30.

They died at all ages, which is why max/min/mean/median are so important when looking at statistical distribution curves.

 

[Duckherder]

OK, but I got it at 20. Particularly susceptible, lucky me.

Unfortunately, our diet and environment has changed radically even over the last 70 years.

Just considering the refrigerator in the 50's and the microwave in the 70's, foods have radically changed.

Pre refrigerator a LOT of foods were preserved by fermentation, which we are now finding out is vital to gut health. Gut health is vital to the whole body's health, because it is responsible for adsorbing nutrients, but also vital to blocking proteins that are not yet ready to be adsorbed due to not being fully digested.

Couple that with so much bromine, chlorine and fluorine in the environment, and now you have an iodine shortage.

Fascinating stuff!

 

[turf3]

They died at all ages, which is why max/min/mean/median are so important when looking at statistical distribution curves.

Yes, of course there were people who lived to 70 or 85. Statistically and evolutionarily they were of even less importance than they are now. Even now, the 40 year old who dies of skin cancer has probably done the vast majority of their reproducing. The 15 year old that dies of vitamin D deficiency loses many opportunities for reproduction.

 

[bholder]

Yes, of course there were people who lived to 70 or 85. Statistically and evolutionarily they were of even less importance than they are now. Even now, the 40 year old who dies of skin cancer has probably done the vast majority of their reproducing. The 15 year old that dies of vitamin D deficiency loses many opportunities for reproduction.

Yeah, skin cancer can kill, but slow compared to severe vitamin D deficiency.

 

[Duckherder]

Yes, of course there were people who lived to 70 or 85. Statistically and evolutionarily they were of even less importance than they are now. Even now, the 40 year old who dies of skin cancer has probably done the vast majority of their reproducing. The 15 year old that dies of vitamin D deficiency loses many opportunities for reproduction.

I disagree that older people who have learned enough to live to an older age are insignificant to a tribe or society.

Perhaps Aristotle might be such a person.

 

[Duckherder]

Yeah, skin cancer can kill, but slow compared to severe vitamin D deficiency.

Seems that you are young enough that all your bedding and pajamas were coated with bromine.

 

[bholder]

Seems that you are young enough that all your bedding and pajamas were coated with bromine.

Me, "young enough"? I don't think so. But I've never heard of this bromine thing, care to educate me? Google didn't turn up anything obvious.

 

[gln1955]

Me, "young enough"? I don't think so. But I've never heard of this bromine thing, care to educate me? Google didn't turn up anything obvious.

They used to use a brominated chemical as a flame retardant in PJ's until they found it was a mutagen and absorbed through the skin.

What that has to do with the subject at hand is a mystery.

 

[bholder]

They used to use a brominated chemical as a flame retardant in PJ's until they found it was a mutagen and absorbed through the skin.

What that has to do with the subject at hand is a mystery.

Ah ok, I wore PJs through the 60's and 70's so yeah, I'm probably sufficiently mutagenned hah. Might explain some things hehe