And it doesn't help that all-ages shows are virtually non-existent now. I get why clubs don't want to take the risk, but I remember the scene being much more vibrant when I was younger and it was open to everyone.
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Devin Townsend telling us what we've all been thinking...
- Thread starter socialleper
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And it doesn't help that all-ages shows are virtually non-existent now. I get why clubs don't want to take the risk, but I remember the scene being much more vibrant when I was younger and it was open to everyone.
Look at people like Davie504 or Charles Berthoud. They make silly YT videos, sell merch, books, courses, backing tracks, run a Patreon etc. They also publish original music, and play live shows, even though that's doesn't necessarily make them much money.
It's serious work, and you can be sure those guys treat it as a business. Even Matt Heafy of Trivium has a strict twitch.tv streaming schedule, does merch, social media, etc. If you're not willing to hustle, it's better to make your money elsewhere.
Yeah, but even in the 2010s, when the middle hadn't yet entirely fallen out of the market, he was only able to pay himself a middle class salary (60k before taxes isn't much...). If you run a business, you don't engage in an activity with projected negative financial outcome. If that means you tour with most/all of your band on backing tracks, so be it.
Harsh Reality: DEVIN TOWNSEND's Reveals His Monthly Salary And It's Not A Lot
Had the same conversation with my bass teacher several years ago. He said at that time, you could still make a good amount doing things like playing weddings, corporate gigs, or religious institutions. Not sure what the market is like for those, but yeah I don't think gigging got any better since then.
It's rough out there for those who aren't Taylor Swift, Metallica, or Phil Anselmo's Pantera. I've noticed a lot of big acts don't seem to be touring.
That's the definition of a hobby, at least as far as the IRS says here in the USA. As soon as it pays for itself, it's a business and it's time for Schedule C.
I used to call my job "the golden handcuffs".
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The venues make money off the booze.
Although I don't know how the door doesn't pay for everything when they aren't paying any of the bands, and they put zero effort into advertising.
I have a friend in Portsmouth Virginia who plays out two or three weekends a month so they're getting exposure they have a following and there's several venues they play from Portsmouth, Virginia Beach to Suffolk they do quite well, and they are basically a classic rock and folk rock group.
The YT thing is baffling to me.
First, YT can F itself. It's a place to waste time or find How To videos. Half the time I don't Like, and I never Subscribe. It's free stuff. If it went away tomorrow it wouldn't matter.
Second, guys like Dave504 are chumps. He plays ok but like everyone else on YT can't write for nothing. So many of these Influencers are wankers with opinions, and are good with a camera. Their biggest skills are production, not music.
I can't deny that Influencers make money, but that's a hack job.
I also pay for my music with a day job. At this point, even if I gave up and started playing covers, I'd still never make more than my normal salary.
But I don’t consider this a hobby. I've been playing live and writing songs for almost 30 years. This is my art. My way of communicating. For me a hobby is something you do in your garage or basement and never share.
The reason I'm frustrated by what seems to be the slow death of music isn't because I want to be a rich rock star. That boat has sailed. It's because if there is no opportunity for young musicians, and it is nothing but a money suck, then we won't have good music anymore. Art takes time and effort. Music takes a butt load of money. If no one bothers with it anymore, all we will have is prefabricated garbage, or poorly attempted indie stuff.
It also seems like everyone else in the "music biz" is getting paid. They are all making money by being parasites, sucking the money out of musicians. Without artists writing, playing, and recording new music there are no venues, no covers, no instruments, no merch, and no labels. Yet it's the creatives that make everything that are bled dry and ground into dust for daring to want to make something.
But I don’t consider this a hobby. I've been playing live and writing songs for almost 30 years. This is my art. My way of communicating. For me a hobby is something you do in your garage or basement and never share.
The reason I'm frustrated by what seems to be the slow death of music isn't because I want to be a rich rock star. That boat has sailed. It's because if there is no opportunity for young musicians, and it is nothing but a money suck, then we won't have good music anymore. Art takes time and effort. Music takes a butt load of money. If no one bothers with it anymore, all we will have is prefabricated garbage, or poorly attempted indie stuff.
It also seems like everyone else in the "music biz" is getting paid. They are all making money by being parasites, sucking the money out of musicians. Without artists writing, playing, and recording new music there are no venues, no covers, no instruments, no merch, and no labels. Yet it's the creatives that make everything that are bled dry and ground into dust for daring to want to make something.
My cousin's duo/band in the St. Louis area plays as much as they want, it seems, as many as 3-5 gigs per week, and they don't play cheap, either. They have to actually schedule a weekend off. So I guess it just depends on your market. A friend in Nashville plays out quite a bit and I feel sure they're getting paid pretty well.
this! there used to be only a couple of venues that held all-ages shows and my son (17 now) loved coming to them with me. in the last 2 years both of those venues have closed.
I have watched this trend for a long time. It’s why I waited until I retired (now) to even think about focusing on music. My current state has me in 3 different groups, Jazz, acoustic trio and a cover band. None of them could ever compare to a regular job on pay. We are fortunate to have some people locally making there own small venues available for real, original music. When I go to these shows, I always pay the suggested donation as it is split between the venue and the musicians. Reasons enough. I usually have this cash available from pay I got playing whatever the last gig was. Keeping the circle unbroken.
Music will be and always has been an art. If you haven’t heard the term “starving artist”, it’s been around since the dawn of time. Art does not “need” to be around to breathe, eat, p**p or any other basic survival asset. Artist do what they do to get the demons or angels out of their heads and into light to be seen and felt and shared with others in compassion. Payment for that privilege is a gift at any level. If I ever need money, I’ll go get a job doing things people need. If you need to make money from music, go get a job doing things people need.
My 2cents…. Peace brother.
There is YT now. We don't need to pay $$$ to buy new music. In the 80's I spent thousands doing this. I havent spent any monry on recordings since Walmart pahased out their discount CDs.
There is YT now. I dont need to drive x miles to a venue, buy a ticket fee and see if the act is any good anymore. YT - click on, click off.
Music Venues ARE dying. Two of the best ones around here got infested by musical cockroaches who work cheap and do 1005 OF THE MUSIC. One local is gone, the other is dying.
There is YT now. I dont need to drive x miles to a venue, buy a ticket fee and see if the act is any good anymore. YT - click on, click off.
Music Venues ARE dying. Two of the best ones around here got infested by musical cockroaches who work cheap and do 1005 OF THE MUSIC. One local is gone, the other is dying.
That's how I was raised, too. But the truth of our culture is that many of the folks making/taking the most money aren't doing *anything* that people need. It's not as if musicians are in a uniquely self-indulgent profession.
What's that thing they call the new hustle culture—where increasingly desperate people scramble endlessly so that somebody else who provides an app tangential to the core service can soak up the aggregate value? Oh, yeah: the "gig" economy.
That song sounds faintly familiar.
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True that. Didn’t even wanna imply that everyone making money is doing something useful. Actually, they’re not, but that doesn’t change the equation for me. I still have to do something to make money and be useful but that’s just me.
Just have man. That's all you can do for now. Maybe something will change. I think some of it has to do with the old guys still insisting on touring and not giving room for the "younger" acts.
Was Devin Townsend the singer in Steve's Sex & Religion band with Terry Bozzio and T.M.Stevens?
The promoters and theater venue owners must perform juggling acts these days to keep the doors open and make it worth the artists effort to tour. My little weekend warrior band is seeing fewer offers to open for these guys. Either they want you to play for free or now they're booking 2 headliners (usually '70s southern rock types) together on the tour. That pretty much eliminates our chances of opening for either one.
