Devin Townsend telling us what we've all been thinking...

[OptimalOptimus]

The YT thing is baffling to me.
First, YT can F itself. It's a place to waste time or find How To videos. Half the time I don't Like, and I never Subscribe. It's free stuff. If it went away tomorrow it wouldn't matter.
Second, guys like Dave504 are chumps. He plays ok but like everyone else on YT can't write for nothing. So many of these Influencers are wankers with opinions, and are good with a camera. Their biggest skills are production, not music.

I can't deny that Influencers make money, but that's a hack job.

Charles Berthoud is a badass just as good if not better than Victor Wooten.

he did a lot of stuff before youtube.

also I just think that we are getting back to post baby boom time with fewer band and music.

Check out Cloudkicker. The guy is a jet pilot, makes music on the side and just publish it. Maybe it isnt a lot of money but it is something and I fond the guy impressive.

playing live or being in as much bar cover band is a thing of the past

 

[SulzerType2]

Judas Priest straight asked him to replace Rob Halford when he needed rest. How's that for Credentials ?
The Retinal Circus album topped sales on 3 différent occasions and countries.

I doubt even Judas Priest are coining it in though. Metal is the subsistence agriculture of popular music. Bands break even, if at all, by touring and selling merch perpetually.

 

[coy garcia]

Every working person is being squeezed just like musicians. Gigging now fuel/expenses eats up at least 50%

 

[Windreaper]

I also pay for my music with a day job. At this point, even if I gave up and started playing covers, I'd still never make more than my normal salary.
But I don’t consider this a hobby. I've been playing live and writing songs for almost 30 years. This is my art. My way of communicating. For me a hobby is something you do in your garage or basement and never share.

The reason I'm frustrated by what seems to be the slow death of music isn't because I want to be a rich rock star. That boat has sailed. It's because if there is no opportunity for young musicians, and it is nothing but a money suck, then we won't have good music anymore. Art takes time and effort. Music takes a butt load of money. If no one bothers with it anymore, all we will have is prefabricated garbage, or poorly attempted indie stuff.
It also seems like everyone else in the "music biz" is getting paid. They are all making money by being parasites, sucking the money out of musicians. Without artists writing, playing, and recording new music there are no venues, no covers, no instruments, no merch, and no labels. Yet it's the creatives that make everything that are bled dry and ground into dust for daring to want to make something.

Kids still go out, but not to watch some guitar band. In my country, the gangsta/roadman culture is popular with the kids. The most successful new acts are rappers - they sell out arenas. Similarly, live music clubs host DJs multiple nights a week.

When I look at the audience at our shows, it's mid-late-20s and up. And half of those people probably have kids at home. The generation that partied in black corsets is now a bunch of grown-ups with responsibilities. The people with spare time are on YT, or dancing to a DJ at some club.

Wouldn't take it out on the people making the music business function. At the low end, anyone getting paid at all is getting paid peanuts - whether it be venues, promoters, or tech staff. Just not enough money to go around.

 

[Medicine Man]

My plan from 2015 was to retire into full time music this year. Just took a research job instead.

 

[perfektspace6]

Well that isn't a good sign if a successful mid-tier artist can't make money. That would be most of the bands I like. I thought touring was the one way that national acts could make money along with merchandise given that streaming doesn't pay well and album sales are practically extinct.

This may be short lived though given that what he said is largely predicated on high costs associated with fuel and inflation across multiple sectors.

You know in these difficult times, I just wish we could go back to 1987 when things were simpler:

 

[Pilgrim]

Devin Townsend? Never heard of him.

 

[ThudThudThud]

I'm sure the online income for all the 'influencers' out in the audience, making duck faces into their iPhones, probably rivals the band fees.

 

[REV]

Music for me is a passion. It's the first thing in my life I ever felt passionate about. I have made many sacrifices in life for music and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I've never been big time but who cares? There have been many ups and downs but mostly I've enjoyed myself and I continue to enjoy myself. If there were no places to play or if when I get too old to play out, I can still continue to work on my skills and improve as a musician or just play with friends. Yeah the business is hard but that's just business.

 

[51PRI]

Charles Berthoud is a badass just as good if not better than Victor Wooten.

he did a lot of stuff before youtube.

also I just think that we are getting back to post baby boom time with fewer band and music.

Check out Cloudkicker. The guy is a jet pilot, makes music on the side and just publish it. Maybe it isnt a lot of money but it is something and I fond the guy impressive.

playing live or being in as much bar cover band is a thing of the past

I think there are more bands and more music than ever before, it's just not in the public domain per se. Back in the 70's with FM radio we ALL knew the latest Jethro Tull, or King Crimson, or Allman Brother album and we could all share that experience. Music is so fractured these days that acts who sell out festivals, i.e. Widespread Panic, Tedeschi Trucks, Joe Bonomassa, and many others, can be virtually unknown by then general public.

Kids still go out, but not to watch some guitar band.....

Guitar bands are in general still pretty popular here, but it's not like the old days with blues or blues/rock or classic rock as much as it is 80's and 90's.

 

[Windreaper]

I'm sure the online income for all the 'influencers' out in the audience, making duck faces into their iPhones, probably rivals the band fees.

Uh, yeah, they ask for a permission to film themselves - with the band in the background. Just got one of those requests last month.

If video game streaming is any indication, we'll soon be paying influencers to make duck faces into their iPhones, (with the band in the background). Actually, would be surprised if this wasn't already happening. "At (hashtag)bandname gig, having a great time! <3"

 

[Crash 56]

As a local, semi-pro, The situation is pretty stagnant. My wife thinks Im crazy for recently joining a six piece club band, she knows Ill barely make enough for gas and a burger. I see it as an opportunity to do something unusual, since most bands around here are 3 or four piece, just to keep costs down.....wish us luck!

 

[N4860]

Devin Townsend? Never heard of him.

Well you probably don't listen to metal or prog much then. The dude has been putting out albums since the 90s and is probably more successful commercially with his music than any of us folks here on talkbass.

 

[truand85]

Make music people want to pay for to see/hear live and you will fill venues. Best replace that bass rig with an MPC or a laptop with Ableton though.

 

[Corevalay]

It's bad out there right now. The entire industry is upside down, at least from what many of us seem to remember as we were coming up. All that matters at this point is clicks and views. I've quite literally had a few record labels recently tell me they really like our bands music, but unfortunately that doesn't matter. Without a huge social following and tons of streams... you're kind of dead in the water. Sucks.

 

[getBAK]

I've definitely had to consider if live (instrument based) music is starting to die off.
Last night I was at a musician's holiday happy hour at one of the few smaller live venues left in Silicon Valley. I'm 45 and was one of the youngest guys in the room. I don't hear of many kids in bands, and I don't see many at live shows.
Live music will continue of course, but the era of being able to make a living doing it... at least in a high $ area like Silicon Valley, may be drawing to a close

 

[Bunk McNulty]

So what you are saying, if you are a 70ish musician it’s hopeless?? Good thing I have a pension..LOL.

Seriously, having gigged and recorded through last 5 decades, today there are so few venues, and the ones that are they either don’t pay well enough to get off the sofa, or you have to be a wiz at marketing to fill the seats.

To drag people out of their homes, out of their favorite lounge wear, when they beverages and food on hand (which is a whole lot less expensive when bought at the grocery), with an endless stream of music playing their favorite tunes played exactly like they remember it for FREE, with zero risk of getting a DUI, or worse yet, shot, would take a lot of selling.

I don’t exactly have a defeatist attitude, but the fact of the matter is the general public has decided that supporting live music is passé. And frankly, the big draws out there today are more so about visual extravaganzas than the clinical production of complicated musical experiences. JMO

Not everyone. There are still people who enjoy going to a club, getting hot and sweaty with their friends, etc. and enjoying the full-bandwidth experience of being alive in meatspace. And being able to say "I was there the night Drummy stopped the music."

 

[IamGroot]

My plan from 2015 was to retire into full time music this year. Just took a research job instead.

Congratulations that you knew who stole your cheese and found something better.

 

[IamGroot]

Its not the internet, its not the big busines, its the testosterone.

The average American male had a total testosterone reading of 605 nanograms per deciliter in 2000.. A scant 20 years later, and the average level has plummeted by 27 percent to just 450 nanograms per deciliter. That means the average 22-year-old man today has an average testosterone level roughly equal to that of a 67-year-old man in 2000.

 

[Windreaper]

Well you probably don't listen to metal or prog much then. The dude has been putting out albums since the 90s and is probably more successful commercially with his music than any of us folks here on talkbass.

That's the thing with "upper 2nd tier" acts like Devin Townsend. Everyone knows Judas Priest or Iron Maiden, but you have to be into metal to have heard of Devin.

He's coming into my neck of the woods next year. Plays a ~1k+ cap venue, ~50 bucks for tickets. Tickets have been on sale for months, still not sold out. Can't afford a huge production with those numbers.

It's bad out there right now. The entire industry is upside down, at least from what many of us remember seem to have come up with. All that matters at this point is clicks and views. I've quite literally had a few record labels recently tell me they really like our bands music, but unfortunately that doesn't matter. Without a huge social following and tons of streams... you're kind of dead in the water. Sucks.

Welcome to the attention economy. We all have the same tools at our disposal. If you can't successfully market your own band, there's very little an indie label can do for you. Also, I'd argue it's more important to form a relationship with a good promoter/agency. They will help promote your band just the same and give you access to better gigs (festival/support).