Agreed - most of those BBE units are great for "bedroom tone", and are terrible for stage work, IMO/IME...
- georgestrings
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DI = mud
- Thread starter Floyd Eye
- Start date
Agreed - most of those BBE units are great for "bedroom tone", and are terrible for stage work, IMO/IME...
- georgestrings
I guess If the rig sounds good by itself then it doesn't matter if the Pre-amp on the Carvin is shot. If it sounds bad though through the PA it might be the PA isn't very good or the soundman doesn't know what he is doing. Hopefully with the extra time you guys can get it dialed in.
I guess If the rig sounds good by itself then it doesn't matter if the Pre-amp on the Carvin is shot. If it sounds bad though through the PA it might be the PA isn't very good or the soundman doesn't know what he is doing. Hopefully with the extra time you guys can get it dialed in.
I hope so. A few months and I'll have the rig I need, until then I'll just come on here and bitch about it.
Tru dat. OTOH, the soundman could put what he needs to in the house and let the amp carry the rest. I've seen it done.
that's all my bass rig is, and it sounds great for rock stuff, both on stage and DI'd out of the sansamp into the house.
same with the bass player in the band i play guitar for (though he's using the rackmount while i just use the bass driver pedal). sounds like rock&roll bass, deep, grindy, with a bit of mid-scoop that keeps it out of the way of the rest of the band while still sounding "full".
I agree with you that with a line delay , you can limit the damage in that situation.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Many (as in most) real pro boards also pad down the mic input for line level, in part to shift the impedance up which results in almost a zero noise penalty, which is why it's done.
Floyd. I wish you luck on your quest. Unfortunately the one that pays the sound guy gets to pick them and work with them
Unfortunately in this case it sounds like it may be most efficient to just hang back and focus on other more important things.
While you may enjoy your amp if you plan to keep gigging, it may be timely to research di options that provide a sound you can live with
Battling soundmen is nomally a fruitless battle that only creates a negative vibe your fans will notice
Unfortunately in this case it sounds like it may be most efficient to just hang back and focus on other more important things.
While you may enjoy your amp if you plan to keep gigging, it may be timely to research di options that provide a sound you can live with
Battling soundmen is nomally a fruitless battle that only creates a negative vibe your fans will notice
Yes Timmy, that is true. The soundman usually does have the las word...but not the last laugh! Here's a neat trick you can do if a soundman is giving you trouble...
Buy a boost pedal and an EHX Micro Pog. Set the boost on full and set the Micro Pog on octave below. For the very last note of your set, hit the boost and the Micro Pog and play the lowest open note you have. You must use a Micro Pog or other digital octaver because most have lousy tracking on those low notes.
(JimmyM accepts no responsibility if you get sued or beaten up)
Buy a boost pedal and an EHX Micro Pog. Set the boost on full and set the Micro Pog on octave below. For the very last note of your set, hit the boost and the Micro Pog and play the lowest open note you have. You must use a Micro Pog or other digital octaver because most have lousy tracking on those low notes.
(JimmyM accepts no responsibility if you get sued or beaten up)
I went out of my way to explain my pedals to the last guy. I told him I have my OD set up to boost slightly, showed him my compressor settings, etc.. I even tipped the guy $20 before we went on. Like I said though, I do think the kid tried.
The guy at the next gig has already told me we could set up really early and that he would mic me, DI me, whatever I want and we could find what I need before hand.
The guy at the next gig has already told me we could set up really early and that he would mic me, DI me, whatever I want and we could find what I need before hand.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I think this is a pretty crappy way to deal with a problem that hasn't yet been identified as the sound guy's problem.
How would you like the sound guy's trick of tapping the bass player's electrical power up to 240 volts, just because the bass player was PERCEIVED to be unreasonable? The costs of such damage would be comparable, no?
- Feb 12, 2006
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- 221,114
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Trying to diagnose problems like this in a text-only forum such as TalkBass, though entertaining, is like following a pool tournament on radio. You get the broad strokes, but you can't really appreciate the subtleties of what is going on.
I've played big venues where my on-stage sound (the combination of my rig and the foldback (monitor) mix sucked, but friends (bass players, not civilians) out front have said it sounded great 100yards back. I've played small venues where I was happy on stage but wandered out (long cable) and was unhappy with what I was hearing out front. Some nights you can fix it, others you have to go with the flow. But know this - 98% of the paying public are more concerned with having fun than doing a critique of the bass tone. Unless it's a
"muso" gig when that percentage is reversed...
It's heartening to read so many sincere attempts to help. I do look forward to hearing more.
It's a little sad to read some of the withering dismissals:scowl:
It's flat-out funny to read some of the angry repsonses to what are clearly ironic postings.
I look forward to reading more and wish all involved a crystal-clear evening...
R
I've played big venues where my on-stage sound (the combination of my rig and the foldback (monitor) mix sucked, but friends (bass players, not civilians) out front have said it sounded great 100yards back. I've played small venues where I was happy on stage but wandered out (long cable) and was unhappy with what I was hearing out front. Some nights you can fix it, others you have to go with the flow. But know this - 98% of the paying public are more concerned with having fun than doing a critique of the bass tone. Unless it's a
"muso" gig when that percentage is reversed...It's heartening to read so many sincere attempts to help. I do look forward to hearing more.
It's a little sad to read some of the withering dismissals:scowl:
It's flat-out funny to read some of the angry repsonses to what are clearly ironic postings.
I look forward to reading more and wish all involved a crystal-clear evening...
R
I don't think he can do that if I'm being mic'ed, can he? Anyway, I wouldn't care if I were renting
Come on Andy...just making a funny! Besides, I'm sure most soundmen have a limiter that will brick wall the output. This is only for bad and unreasonable soundmen who like to put their big fat footprint on your sound and tell you to eat it in the process, not for quality dudes like you who rock!
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I know you were kidding Jimmy, but others may not.
There are folks who read stuff like this on these types of forums, taking this stuff as gospel but can't see that you were kidding... I've seen some of them and frankly it's pretty scary.
Now playing harmless pranks is a different story but even that can get taken out of context. I was handing FOH for an international A circuit world music act about 10 years back and the venue I provided sound for was the last show of a 3 or 4 month tour and the band/crew was pretty punchdrunk. This was a sold out PAC show and their tour manager was throwing small stuffed bunnies from the wings at the bass player and drummer primarily but also tossing them up so they fell from what looked like the grid on the front line during the last couple of songs and everybody on stage was laughing so hard that the had to stop the last song and regroup. The lead singer was laughing so hard he had tears streaming down his face. He couldn't catch his breath so he couldn't sing. The tour manager was pointing at my partner who was mixing monitors from the side of stage and the band started throwing bunnies at him. The audience thought it was part of the show and were laughing too. Anyway, after the show, the promoter came up to my partner and ripped him a new one for "screwing up the show" and told us we were done soing sound at their venue. Fortunately, the tour manager saw this and came running up to set things straight, but this could have ended poorly. We were doing about 40 shows a year at this venue which represented substantial money. Band took us out with them for their end of tour dinner, everybody thought the whole affair was hilarious except the promoter's rep. Oh well.
There are folks who read stuff like this on these types of forums, taking this stuff as gospel but can't see that you were kidding... I've seen some of them and frankly it's pretty scary.
Now playing harmless pranks is a different story but even that can get taken out of context. I was handing FOH for an international A circuit world music act about 10 years back and the venue I provided sound for was the last show of a 3 or 4 month tour and the band/crew was pretty punchdrunk. This was a sold out PAC show and their tour manager was throwing small stuffed bunnies from the wings at the bass player and drummer primarily but also tossing them up so they fell from what looked like the grid on the front line during the last couple of songs and everybody on stage was laughing so hard that the had to stop the last song and regroup. The lead singer was laughing so hard he had tears streaming down his face. He couldn't catch his breath so he couldn't sing. The tour manager was pointing at my partner who was mixing monitors from the side of stage and the band started throwing bunnies at him. The audience thought it was part of the show and were laughing too. Anyway, after the show, the promoter came up to my partner and ripped him a new one for "screwing up the show" and told us we were done soing sound at their venue. Fortunately, the tour manager saw this and came running up to set things straight, but this could have ended poorly. We were doing about 40 shows a year at this venue which represented substantial money. Band took us out with them for their end of tour dinner, everybody thought the whole affair was hilarious except the promoter's rep. Oh well.
Sheesh...all over stuffed bunnies! Like your guys were going to blow a gig by pranking the band. I know a handful of highstrung promoters...really irritating. You just want to slap 'em and tell them to go away till it's time to count receipts.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,066
- 5
- 221,114
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Performing Arts Center producted shows, those folks are so stuffy that there's not even a hope for a sense of humor.
I'll preface this by saying I am a rank amateur sound guy, so this is just my own limited experience talking. Agedhorse or others who know more than me, feel free to correct me.
Having bass in your monitor usually doesn't work very well. There's a reason your cab isn't a single small wedge, right? It's better when you have a quality rig that can be used as a stage monitor.
The PA may not be able to handle bass very well. At the gig I usually work, we have two subs and two small mains above them. The subs only push up to... 120hz, iirc. All the mids above that are going through the same small mains that are also handling the vocals/guitars/keys etc. It's a struggle getting the subs to play nice with the mains, so that the bass is clearly audible without the =<120hz overwhelming the mix. At a quick and dirty gig the adjustment between sets may not be possible, and so it can sound like crap.
If the drums are too loud, you and the guitarists turn your amps up, everyone turns their monitors up, and the stage volume is as loud as the overall mix should be but sounds crappy because it's all bouncing off the back wall of the stage. The FOH can turn up loud enough to drown stage volume out, but then the overall sound level is too high. I know my greatest frustration as a sound guy in a small venue is the stage volume being too high, but sounding terrible because it's bouncing off a concrete wall.
Having bass in your monitor usually doesn't work very well. There's a reason your cab isn't a single small wedge, right? It's better when you have a quality rig that can be used as a stage monitor.
The PA may not be able to handle bass very well. At the gig I usually work, we have two subs and two small mains above them. The subs only push up to... 120hz, iirc. All the mids above that are going through the same small mains that are also handling the vocals/guitars/keys etc. It's a struggle getting the subs to play nice with the mains, so that the bass is clearly audible without the =<120hz overwhelming the mix. At a quick and dirty gig the adjustment between sets may not be possible, and so it can sound like crap.
If the drums are too loud, you and the guitarists turn your amps up, everyone turns their monitors up, and the stage volume is as loud as the overall mix should be but sounds crappy because it's all bouncing off the back wall of the stage. The FOH can turn up loud enough to drown stage volume out, but then the overall sound level is too high. I know my greatest frustration as a sound guy in a small venue is the stage volume being too high, but sounding terrible because it's bouncing off a concrete wall.
