You’re wondering how? Algorithms? I see one video on a page I follow, watch it, follow a link. Next thing you know, I’m seeing more videos from similar products.
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DI or Line ISO for Modeler Signal
- Thread starter ColonelZulu
- Start date
I swear, I can be having a conversation with someone about gear or a topic and it just seems like I’m getting ads about that topic very soon afterwards. Freaky!
s0c9
Supporting Member
I'm not sure if this is directed at me (but you quoted my post) but I'm on your side here. DI box is the way forward, for all the reasons we both mentioned.
Compared to just the volume knob, a line isolator stops potentially harmful phantom power from interacting with your Stomp. It's also going to stop some potential grounding issues. Compared to a good di box, the isolator effectively does less as with a di box you get the phantom protection, ground lift and it also lowers the signal to mic level, outputting a signal that is more universally accepted/expected by soundman. Is it wrong to lower a signal just to boost it again later? Yes. Should any decent soundman and board be able to work with a line level signal? Also yes. I don't make the rules.
I said in another thread, a line isolator is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Still, gotta sell crap.
I am a bit dubious, but not 100% convinced that a line isolator is snake oil.
If the output of your signal chain is balanced, and the particular line isolator you are using actually has a balanced input...this could be beneficial. The PinStripe MISO claims a balanced 1/4" input. The Walrus Audio Canvas seems to indicate the input is 1/4" unbalanced.
The other claim that may have some validity is the comments about impedance matching. AFAIK modern sound equipment typically relies on something called impedance bridging, rather than impedance matching. Impedance matching means the output impedance and input impedance are pretty much the same. Impedance bridging occurs when the input impedance of the driven circuit is way higher (>10X) than the output impedance of the driving circuit. The differences in loading can have an impact on tone and damping, and AFAIK this can vary from one circuit to the next. In all honesty I would have to hear it to believe, and I think any changes that occur are likely to be fairly subtle.
Let's keep in mind that you may also hear subtle differences between various high quality DIs. Try a Countryman Type 85, Radial JDI, and Radial J48 and you may here some subtle differences.
I don't plan to run out and by a Line Isolator DI to replace any of my quality DIs. But I don't use a modeler.
For anyone who does use a modeler, I don't really see significant concern with getting a Line Isolator DI instead of a DI. May not be a good choice into some low-end mixers...specifically mixers that can not handle line-level on the XLR input. The Canvas would probably be fine as it has a 15dB pad.
I do plan to buy a Morley MHE-2...which is a line isolator but intended for a totally different application.
If the output of your signal chain is balanced, and the particular line isolator you are using actually has a balanced input...this could be beneficial. The PinStripe MISO claims a balanced 1/4" input. The Walrus Audio Canvas seems to indicate the input is 1/4" unbalanced.
The other claim that may have some validity is the comments about impedance matching. AFAIK modern sound equipment typically relies on something called impedance bridging, rather than impedance matching. Impedance matching means the output impedance and input impedance are pretty much the same. Impedance bridging occurs when the input impedance of the driven circuit is way higher (>10X) than the output impedance of the driving circuit. The differences in loading can have an impact on tone and damping, and AFAIK this can vary from one circuit to the next. In all honesty I would have to hear it to believe, and I think any changes that occur are likely to be fairly subtle.
Let's keep in mind that you may also hear subtle differences between various high quality DIs. Try a Countryman Type 85, Radial JDI, and Radial J48 and you may here some subtle differences.
I don't plan to run out and by a Line Isolator DI to replace any of my quality DIs. But I don't use a modeler.
For anyone who does use a modeler, I don't really see significant concern with getting a Line Isolator DI instead of a DI. May not be a good choice into some low-end mixers...specifically mixers that can not handle line-level on the XLR input. The Canvas would probably be fine as it has a 15dB pad.
I do plan to buy a Morley MHE-2...which is a line isolator but intended for a totally different application.
You also lose some voltage ( (V * Zin) / (Zout + Zin) ). At 1:1 impedance match you would lose 50% (or -6dB gain, iirc). At 1:10 you would lose only ~9%, at 1:100 ~1% etc. It's not the same for every frequency since impedance also includes reactance, but that stuff is above my pay grade.
But yeah, a bridging connection is ideal since we only care about voltage transfer. You're also right that it's subtle, but also apparent when you compare extremes. Some mic preamps even feature variable input impedance to fine tune the response.
I used to use an inexpensive DI with my HX Stomp because I didn't have a TRS to XLR cable and by bandmate gave me the DI. I've since purchased the Walrus Audio Canvas for the isolation. I hear no difference in sound quality between the two and the Canvas requires less input gain on my channel. My guitar player just uses a TRS to XLR straight to the board for his Pod Go with no issues.
I like the Canvas for peace of mind (accidental phantom power) and I can also use it as a standard DI if my HX Stomp fails It's just a nice little swiss army knife and one less scenario I have to worry about.
I like the Canvas for peace of mind (accidental phantom power) and I can also use it as a standard DI if my HX Stomp fails It's just a nice little swiss army knife and one less scenario I have to worry about.
I use an HX Stomp as the heart of my ampless rig and connect it to a MISO isolation box from Pinstripe Pedals. Works very very well, gives me an XLR connection lacking on the HXS, and provides a ground lift if things get wonky. Very clean, strong signal to FOH. I'd do it again...
Does anybody use line isolators with pedal boards (without modellers)?
Use ISO when you have ground loop and your unit's XLR out doesn't have a ground lift or prevent other noise. That's why it's been invented.
All else , XLR straight to FOH.
That's what it's for.
No device / microphone have the exact same impedance when going to a preamp, a bit of a habit hole me thinks.....
Video shown up here : gain is un matched between examples
All else , XLR straight to FOH.
That's what it's for.
No device / microphone have the exact same impedance when going to a preamp, a bit of a habit hole me thinks.....
Video shown up here : gain is un matched between examples
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Good to hear. I was "raw doggin" it with my HX Stomp using the 1/4" out with an adapter to the XLR to the mixer. We use our own gear at every gig so it wasn't a big deal, until it was one night. I had no ground lift to try to get rid of some hum. We figured it out, but since then I thought I should maybe get a DI as I have room on my board. Just received my MISO and will try it at a gig in a couple weeks.
Shure GLXD+ to HX Stomp to MISO. Pedaltrain Nano with CIOKS DC7 underneath to power it.
For straight XLR 1 to 1 isolation look at the Radial IceCube, Sesom IL-19, Whirlwind ISO XL.
Keep in mind the Sescom is wired with pin 1 straight through, the Whilwind is not and the IceCube has a ground lift switch.
Sometimes even with transformer isolation pin 1 still needs to be lifted.
All of those will block phantom power.
Keep in mind the Sescom is wired with pin 1 straight through, the Whilwind is not and the IceCube has a ground lift switch.
Sometimes even with transformer isolation pin 1 still needs to be lifted.
All of those will block phantom power.
I have an Hx Stomp and a Helix. I never, ever use a DI with them. XLR out from Helix, TRs to XLR Male adaptor for the Hx. I can't grasp a sound person having issues with that... Not like I haven't been at FOH with similar line level stuff. I have an input trim after all...About the only times I balked at a player's DI was when it was something sketchy. Or when they wnted to use something buried in their rack. Nope sorry, festival change overs gotta be quick and do not involve looking into the rats nest of cr@p some folks think of as OK in a rack.
If I were to see a Mesa Subway, Quiter, Genzler md the XLR is accessible and set to pre. I'm totally OK. Otherwise it was my countryman or radial...
I often mix from stage. Room depending I'll go straight to the board and take an AUX to my stage rig. If it is a good sized stage, I might have acoustic guitar, kick and bass in there. If that is where I'm headed, I'll take a Quilter Bb-800 as it has the XLR input that neuters the front panel controls other than the master. A 1 channel power amp basically... (such a great feature!) my cabs are neutral so the guitar actually sounds decent.
If I were to see a Mesa Subway, Quiter, Genzler md the XLR is accessible and set to pre. I'm totally OK. Otherwise it was my countryman or radial...
I often mix from stage. Room depending I'll go straight to the board and take an AUX to my stage rig. If it is a good sized stage, I might have acoustic guitar, kick and bass in there. If that is where I'm headed, I'll take a Quilter Bb-800 as it has the XLR input that neuters the front panel controls other than the master. A 1 channel power amp basically... (such a great feature!) my cabs are neutral so the guitar actually sounds decent.
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If you have an xlr connection the Radial IceCube is about $90, less if you shop around.
I guess it sounded like you were going to go out and buy something to have in case it was needed.
