DI - The Magic?

[slapmachine]

Hey guys,

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the bass player Ben Kenney, but I'm a huge fan, and I was talking to him after a show Saturday night about all things bass, among other things, and he was telling me just having a really good signal through a DI and a good compressor goes miles with recording bass lines.

I love Ben because you hear him nail so many tones from smooth/rich but still clear bass lines to crystal clear tone-all-the-way open P-bass rock. I know that's the magic of the player, including gear, strings, and specific gear.

I don't know a whole lot about compressors or DI's for that matter. I have one on the back of my Little Mark II that I use for recording frequently, but it's mainly a sub-stellar quality. The compressor that's an integrated part of my rig (always there, not physically integrated into the amp) is the Markbass Compressore with a JJ ECC81, which I've really had a phenomenal time with.

What are your guy's opinions of the mainly need a solid DI (maybe tube?) and a good compressor to get a good line. I also know audio interfaces play a big part and I've been using the Komplete Audio 6 interface, which has worked really beautifully, just missing a little richness / beef on the tracks, and I know the bass has the potential!


Rocking a Fender FSR Hot Rod Jazz with SCN Pickups, redone wiring and a vintage Orange Drop Cap holdin' down the tone.

Best regards,

Brooks

Edit: I don't really slap, my name was the old me. (Just in case it helps refine the signal advice)

 

[Nihilism]

Get an Avalon. End of story.

 

[bigswifty1]

I'm a big fan of tube di's, in fact they're a subject close to my heart.

Even if I'm not actually using the balanced output I never play without my (sadly discontinued) Aguilar DB 900. The Ampeg SVT Vacuum Tube DI is also very good, again discontinued. I forget the details, but if you really want the Ampeg, the engineer who designed it for Ampeg is making a similar (cough) unit on his own. A quick search will turn up his name. I am getting a second hand Ampeg soon and will be able to a/b it with the Aggy, and I'm super interested to hear the result.

The Radial Firefly sounds pretty good (I have heard it but not played it), and has the possibly handy feature of allowing two, gain-adjustable, foot-switchable inputs.... handy if you like to swap instruments in gigs.

JimmyM will probably chime in about the REDDI tube DI, and plenty will agree with him, but for me (and reading your OP I suspect you) it's pretty much useless since the unbalanced output doesn't have the tube circuitry applied to it. Of course that may be exactly what you want, but it's not what I want. I stand to be corrected if this has been addressed.

For SS DI's, well there are loads of them about ranging from cheapy phantom powered units like the Behrengers that I seem to see littering the floor everywhere I play right up to the aforementioned Avalon U5 and the Demeter (can't recall the model number). It's a personal thing, but for gigging my preference is for a floor unit rather than racks like the Avalon. Plus just about every multi fx pedal has a DI now, and some of them are perfectly usable, the Zoom "B" series for one.

Also in SS, the Aguilar Tone Hammer preamp pedal functions as a great DI. I have this unit and like it a lot, especially into the the fx return of some overly sterile Class D's. But my Aggy DB 900 is my preference for this kind of usage - it is simply spectacular. It is like an instant fix for almost everything for me. I never play bass without it. It works great with guitars, and my friends fender Rhodes sounds totally epic through it. As a "for instance" my Darkstar equipped P bass is totally unusable in front of my gk mb500, put the DB 900 in the chain and it goes from nasty hard clipping to punchy, vintage, sublime.

Mike

 

[JimmyM]

JimmyM will probably chime in about the REDDI tube DI, and plenty will agree with him, but for me (and reading your OP I suspect you) it's pretty much useless since the unbalanced output doesn't have the tube circuitry applied to it. Of course that may be exactly what you want, but it's not what I want. I stand to be corrected if this has been addressed.

It has not, but with its output transformer, splitting the signal without causing degradation of the signal that goes to the board is not easy or cheap to do, as I've found out in my attempts to do just that. I don't know exactly what it would entail, but it's definitely more involved than just hooking up a splitter. So folks like me live with it because the signal going to FOH is so good that you don't want it messed with, nor would I want the price to go way up Plus I have amps I'm happy with already, so I really don't need it to go to them.

 

[jmclearnon]

Anything Radial is also good, but each to his/her own taste

 

[loopee]

As a "for instance" my Darkstar equipped P bass is totally unusable in front of my gk mb500, put the DB 900 in the chain and it goes from nasty hard clipping to punchy, vintage, sublime.

Really? I have Dark Stars on one of my basses too but it sounds good through my MB Fusion 500....do the tubes in the Fusion make the difference? So you put the DB 900 in chain between your bass and the amp?

 

[bigswifty1]

I can't say for sure, not having tried the Fusion, but I would presume that the tubes in the Fusion preamp *are* making a difference - its kinda what they are there for really

And you are correct, I run the DB900 as follows:

Instrument => fx (don't use any on bass, but do on guitar) => amp

The effect of the DB900 is subtle on polite instruments (My nordy pupped J), nice on stronger instruments (my Fralin pupped J) and invaluable on hotter instruments (the darkstarred beast, Rhodes)

It's just me, but if I were purchasing new, today, I would get the Firefly or the REDDI (if I was always performing live with PA support). As things stand, I'm looking forward to trying my second hand Ampeg.

No doubt others will have their favourites - as I said, tube DI's are a bit of a hobby horse for me, so I'm all ears

Mike

I'm a believer in mains-powered, tubed DI's for more than simply ummm DI'ing

Mike

Really? I have Dark Stars on one of my basses too but it sounds good through my MB Fusion 500....do the tubes in the Fusion make the difference? So you put the DB 900 in chain between your bass and the amp?

 

[HeavyJazz]

Get an Avalon. End of story.

+1.

 

[Dave W]

Do you want a tube DI? Get a REDDI
Do you want a modern sounding DI? Get an Avalon U5

Both are fantastic pieces of gear that sound phenomenal.

 

[jasmangan]

I have an Evil Twin that I'm really happy with; I also have the Brick which sounds cool too but not at the ET level of cool. For gigs I take my Radial Bassbone, the DI on that is full and clear, and I never get the stinky eyeball from the sound guy

 

[Handyman]

It has not, but with its output transformer, splitting the signal without causing degradation of the signal that goes to the board is not easy or cheap to do, as I've found out in my attempts to do just that. I don't know exactly what it would entail, but it's definitely more involved than just hooking up a splitter. So folks like me live with it because the signal going to FOH is so good that you don't want it messed with, nor would I want the price to go way up Plus I have amps I'm happy with already, so I really don't need it to go to them.

Well, you could always run your REDDI into your VT Deluxe to split the signal.

If you want to split the signal, you'll pretty much be forced to run it into some sort of active buffer first. Those are just the breaks if you're driving the DI's output from a preamp tube, even if its been sent through a transformer.

Given how great the REDDI sounds, its not such an awful limitation.

 

[Bongolation]

I think the term "DI" needs clarification.

It's a method, not a piece of hardware.

 

[AngelCrusher]

A solid DI is a must for me when it comes to studio work. I own multiple DIs actually.

It is a huge part of getting a great tone into your DAW.

Passive bass - Active DI

Active bass - passive DI

 

[Marial]

Another vote for the Avalon U5. I'd always been dead set against not having my amp miced during recording until I heard my bass through a U5. Since I bought my own I've run my Jazz, my Pedulla, and even my Upright through it and it just sounds great. I don't have any experience with compressors yet, but an Empress is probably next on my acquisition list (on the recommendation of Chad at BassEFX.com). The Avalon is absolutely fantastic for the tones I like: rich, clear, warm, and deep.

 

[portlandguy]

I am thinking about selling my Reddi, it is fantastic but I am no longer doing much recording (playing out more) - PM me if interested.

 

[Bongolation]

A solid DI is a must for me when it comes to studio work. I own multiple DIs actually.

It is a huge part of getting a great tone into your DAW.

I'm of the school that holds "great tone" happens within the DAW in the context of the processed mix, because that's the only context that matters.

I don't want any coloration or EQ of the raw signal in the front end. It's simply not logical to me.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I'm of the school that holds "great tone" happens within the DAW in the context of the processed mix, because that's the only context that matters.

I don't want any coloration or EQ of the raw signal in the front end. It's simply not logical to me.

I do it the same way many times, but it matters what you are going for really.

I prefer to get the tone before it hits the DAW. That is how every accomplished producer I have recorded with does it. The bad ones I have worked with did it wrong, and that is a while other story..one that basically makes half of me side with what you are saying. But let's focus on the good guys: I have had guys run me through 1176s many times, Avalons, then into an API or Neve pre. This is real common in rock and it sounds rather fantastic.

Many times (depending on the music), this can be done with the bass into the board or into a clean DI.

Now let me clarify, there is still EQing and processing happening in the DAW.

But what I notice is when you have a tone that goes through some subtle magic like an Avalon or a REDDI or for me, the tonehammer - sculpting that tone in the DAW is far easier.

You don't have to do it..there are no rules. But the best records I have done and have seen made (many released on various warner bros labels for example) were EQ'd a bit and run through nice gear before hitting the DAW.

And when we sat back and listened to the roughs, they already sounded mixed. The mix engineer flipped out when he got them..he was so happy because the tones were already there and he didn't have to worry about any harshness at all.

So to say it is not logical to you - well I disagree. Even Jamerson's tone (that is super old school) was distorted in the desk, as they overdrove that channel. That is why his basslines sound so clear in the mix. That extra harmonic excitement is extremely important in a bass recording.

 

[P-oddz]

I thought Ben Kenney was running a Tone Hammer (for at least a while). I think I even recall seeing a post somewhere when I bought mine, with a breakdown of his preferred settings(?).

If you're not aware - Basstasters has a nice section on DI comparisons, and although it doesn't cover EVERYTHING, it covers quite a broad range of available DIs and Preamps.

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Just click down the side and compare for yourself (be sure to listen with good headphones or speakers so you can catch the subtle differences in each).

 

[Eublet]

I thought Ben Kenney was running a Tone Hammer (for at least a while). I think I even recall seeing a post somewhere when I bought mine, with a breakdown of his preferred settings(?).

You are correct. He used (may still be using...not sure) both a TH pedal and the TLC compressor. Here was a pic of his board and settings, which by the way, sound fantastic to me also when I use it that way.

 

[JimmyM]

Well, you could always run your REDDI into your VT Deluxe to split the signal.

If you want to split the signal, you'll pretty much be forced to run it into some sort of active buffer first. Those are just the breaks if you're driving the DI's output from a preamp tube, even if its been sent through a transformer.

Given how great the REDDI sounds, its not such an awful limitation.

Agreed. One I can easily live with. Besides, with an SVT or B-15, it's superfluous for going into my rig