My question to all of you is, do you feel that a studio DI(REDDI, Noble, U5, Radial, etc) will cause a noticeably larger difference over just a XLR out of an amplifier? Or say, the DI out of a tech 21 or dark glass pedal. I'm curious to see what everyone has to say, especially those playing smaller gigs vs larger gigs, because a lot of professional artists drag a U5 with them, but some do not.
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I'm not saying a U5 is bad, but not convinced it's necessary. For example, before I went ampless at shows, I would use the DI on the back of my Shuttle 6.2, on par with a Countryman DI IMO. I run my basses in to a BDDI after the wireless straight to the mixer and have never had a problem. A lot of subjectivity if you ask me
s0c9
Supporting Member
Right! live I am convinced that not enough people will notice, and unless i'm touring with my own PA i doubt the quality will be noticeable by me either.
s0c9
Supporting Member
I think that's the biggest "deciding factor".. with your average PA rig (unless you are touring with a Meyer or equivalent system
).. is anyone (even you) going to notice?You MAY if your signal chain is that level of quality thru TOTL (Top Of The Line) digital console and you run a TOTL IEM system...
Other than that.. I don't see it.. just my opinion.
Bring a BDDI incase you run into problems, then do whichever you like best. The BDDI will always work in a pinch.
- Jul 18, 2017
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(unless you are touring with a Meyer or equivalent system
I think once you're at that level, you wouldn't ask the OP's question anymore...
Some guys use these ( or similar ) on their AMP-out ( to speaker ) output. NEVE RNDI
There can be quite a difference depending on the amplifier (especially when compared to something like the REDDI). How well you hear that difference depends on the PA.
Best advice though? Convince yourself it's all snake oil and grab the least expensive option.
Best advice though? Convince yourself it's all snake oil and grab the least expensive option.
The DI out of my old 1999 Eden WT500/800 is studio-quality and dead quiet. It also has a DI level control which I have used twice so far - once to raise the level of the DI signal, and once to back it off. Every other time keeping it flat has been fine with the FOH boards. My Eden Nemesis RS400 also has the same type of dead-quiet adjustable level DI out.
The DI out of a GKBackline 250 I've used was also plenty quiet although not adjustable. Not sure I'd record through it just because I don't recall if it's quiet enough for that, but it was quiet enough for the FOH so it's probably fine too.
Odds are those folks are bringing their U5's with them for far more than their DI abilities though. They are bringing it with them so they can plug it into any backline or FOH and use the built-in pre-amp the U5 has. They know how to get the sound they want out of it and by plugging it into the effects-return of any backline amp, they by-pass that amp's preamp and just use the power amp part of it - backline becomes a slave amp. By taking it with them on fly-out dates they know they can get "their sound" out of whatever they have to plug into. If I had to leave my amp behind, I'd bring an Eden WTDI with me because it also has a built-in preamp that I know I can get the sound I like out of, no matter what I plug it into.
If you're lugging your amp around with you and it has a decently quiet DI, then you don't really need a separate one. If you have fly-out dates or other gigs where you don't take your amp with you, then yeah a separate preamp/DI is a wise choice.
For live use I'd say that unless there is something actually wrong with the signal (ie. excessive noise, unwanted distortion, cutting low frequencies, etc), very few people will ever be able to notice between different DI sources once the mix gets settled and the show is rolling. Sure, if you're comparing a Noble pre to some $30 bargain basement DI that the venue stores in a milk crate under the stage, it might make a difference. But comparing Nobel to REDDI to RNDI to U5 to Radial to Countryman to Tech 21 to Ampeg to Aguilar to Mesa to ...... you're basically just comparing feature sets and particulars in how they reproduce the tone. I think the underlying quality of the output signal will be essentially the same.
In a studio/critical listening environment, sure you might notice a difference between each unit. Will it matter? Impossible to answer that with any kind of a blanket statement. I've compared the Radial JDI to a Countryman Type 85 in the studio, and while I can hear a difference (when the bass is solo'd and only under very critical listening situations), neither one is necessarily better than the other. If only one was available I wouldn't think twice. The difference between the two is truly negligible compared to the tiniest tweak of any EQ the studio is going to have on hand.
I swore off Sansamps years ago because they had too much of a baked-in EQ that was impossible to get rid of. Eventually I was running my RBI with the Blend dialed back to like 25%... so what's the point of even using it at that point? I hear the same heavy scoop baked into the Darkglass stuff. Some people love it, I personally do not.
The XLR out on my old Ampeg SVT3PRO and current Aguilar TH500 sound(ed) just fine for live use, and I carry a Radial JDI with me every time I leave the house. I also usually have at least one preamp pedal with an XLR out as well... It's nice to have backup on a gig, never know when you'll need it.
In a studio/critical listening environment, sure you might notice a difference between each unit. Will it matter? Impossible to answer that with any kind of a blanket statement. I've compared the Radial JDI to a Countryman Type 85 in the studio, and while I can hear a difference (when the bass is solo'd and only under very critical listening situations), neither one is necessarily better than the other. If only one was available I wouldn't think twice. The difference between the two is truly negligible compared to the tiniest tweak of any EQ the studio is going to have on hand.
I swore off Sansamps years ago because they had too much of a baked-in EQ that was impossible to get rid of. Eventually I was running my RBI with the Blend dialed back to like 25%... so what's the point of even using it at that point? I hear the same heavy scoop baked into the Darkglass stuff. Some people love it, I personally do not.
The XLR out on my old Ampeg SVT3PRO and current Aguilar TH500 sound(ed) just fine for live use, and I carry a Radial JDI with me every time I leave the house. I also usually have at least one preamp pedal with an XLR out as well... It's nice to have backup on a gig, never know when you'll need it.
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Out of curiosity, can you post maybe a clip or describe this 'baked in' eq in sans amp and dark glass? I have a sans amp and was thinking of getting a dark glass, but if there's a scoop i'd be curious to see how something else would sound.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Reminds of being someone asking what the best form of contraception is.. JUST SAY NO !!
Can't post any clips as I don't currently own any Sansamp or Darkglass products.
The baked-in EQ is essentially a deep midrange scoop.
Take your Sansamp and set all the EQ to 12:00. Start with the Blend at 100% (fully clockwise) and slowly dial it back as you play. You should notice a substantial increase in the midrange. Dial it back up and you'll hear those mids drop back out. It's not a bad sound, and soundguys seem to love it, but I grew out of it after a few years.
People have posted frequency plots of various Sansamp and Darglass products around talkbass before. If you do some clever searching you should be able to find them.
Here you go.
This image in particular shows what I was trying to describe. Notice the 'UGE dip at around 800 Hz with the Blend fully clockwise and all other EQ set flat. This is the "classic" Sansamp sound.
This image in particular shows what I was trying to describe. Notice the 'UGE dip at around 800 Hz with the Blend fully clockwise and all other EQ set flat. This is the "classic" Sansamp sound.
At any rate, there's nothing inherently wrong with the Sansamp or anything else like it if that's the tone you're after. Even with the Blend fully off it still functions just fine as a DI.
So maybe it's time to ask... what is it that you're trying to achieve by upgrading your DI situation?
So maybe it's time to ask... what is it that you're trying to achieve by upgrading your DI situation?
