DI vs. Amp line out

[BAG]

There can be quite a difference depending on the amplifier (especially when compared to something like the REDDI). How well you hear that difference depends on the PA.

Best advice though? Convince yourself it's all snake oil and grab the least expensive option.

Yep......

I quite often use two cheap ART Zdirect di's for guitars and they work fine. I've used them for my bass on a few gigs and while I'll say that the DI out on my Schertler bass amp is the best sounding DI I've heard, the reality is that through a typical decent quality pa you're not going to hear enough difference in a mix to make you really want to spend the big bucks on a top of the line DI. Through a cheap PA you won't hear any difference.

 

[slamsinger]

I'll be using a summit TD-100 instead of my line out from my ea audio iamp800 tonight for the first time live

I'll fill ya in later on with the outcome ....

 

[MDBass]

For live use I'd say that unless there is something actually wrong with the signal (ie. excessive noise, unwanted distortion, cutting low frequencies, etc), very few people will ever be able to notice between different DI sources once the mix gets settled and the show is rolling. Sure, if you're comparing a Noble pre to some $30 bargain basement DI that the venue stores in a milk crate under the stage, it might make a difference. But comparing Nobel to REDDI to RNDI to U5 to Radial to Countryman to Tech 21 to Ampeg to Aguilar to Mesa to ...... you're basically just comparing feature sets and particulars in how they reproduce the tone. I think the underlying quality of the output signal will be essentially the same.

In a studio/critical listening environment, sure you might notice a difference between each unit. Will it matter? Impossible to answer that with any kind of a blanket statement. I've compared the Radial JDI to a Countryman Type 85 in the studio, and while I can hear a difference (when the bass is solo'd and only under very critical listening situations), neither one is necessarily better than the other. If only one was available I wouldn't think twice. The difference between the two is truly negligible compared to the tiniest tweak of any EQ the studio is going to have on hand.

I swore off Sansamps years ago because they had too much of a baked-in EQ that was impossible to get rid of. Eventually I was running my RBI with the Blend dialed back to like 25%... so what's the point of even using it at that point? I hear the same heavy scoop baked into the Darkglass stuff. Some people love it, I personally do not.

The XLR out on my old Ampeg SVT3PRO and current Aguilar TH500 sound(ed) just fine for live use, and I carry a Radial JDI with me every time I leave the house. I also usually have at least one preamp pedal with an XLR out as well... It's nice to have backup on a gig, never know when you'll need it.

Even with the Blend at 25%, the tone is colored quite dramatically; that's the only way I run those units, and they're always on pedals for me regardless of the genre.

Out of curiosity, can you post maybe a clip or describe this 'baked in' eq in sans amp and dark glass? I have a sans amp and was thinking of getting a dark glass, but if there's a scoop i'd be curious to see how something else would sound.

The Darkglass circuits all sound dramatically different; the B#k series has a sharp cut at around 300Hz, but the other pedals do not.

 

[MDBass]

My question to all of you is, do you feel that a studio DI(REDDI, Noble, U5, Radial, etc) will cause a noticeably larger difference over just a XLR out of an amplifier? Or say, the DI out of a tech 21 or dark glass pedal. I'm curious to see what everyone has to say, especially those playing smaller gigs vs larger gigs, because a lot of professional artists drag a U5 with them, but some do not.

The "studio" DI's you listed all sound pretty different; you'd likely notice more of difference using a REDDI, Noble or Jule, and less to none at all from the others if you're comparing it to the pre-EQ signal from the amp.

 

[ColonelZulu]

The DI out on the Peterson Strobostomp actually works fine to run to the board.

 

[Kmonk]

It really depends on the venue. I have used many different amps including Ampeg, GK, Hartke, Eden, Ashdown, Fender and Peavey. In some venues running off the head was fine and in others it was extremely noisy. It didn't matter if I was running pre or post EQ or which position I had the ground lift switch. Most sound engineers I've dealt with prefer a separate high quality D.I. About a year ago, I bought a Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe. I did this for several reasons. First, I wanted a good quality D.I. Second, I liked the fact that it is analog. Third, I like the Ampeg SVT tone that I can get. Fourth, I can program different tones and switch between them "on the fly". Fifth, I can plug in 2 basses and switch between them silently by pressing a foot switch. You definitely get what you pay for with a high quality D.I.

One thing you have to realize is that regardless of whether you run out of the head, run through a D.I. or mic your cab, the audience is not hearing what you hear. Your tone through the front of house is affected by the P.A. speakers, how the sound engineer EQ's your bass and how the engineer mixes the band. Everyone has different preferences. Some sound engineers like a lot of bass and some like very little. I have heard live recordings where my bass sounded great and others where it was barely audible.

In my opinion, it pays to buy a high quality D.I. You might never need it but on the occasions when you do, you will be glad you have it.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Any DI without a level knob is useless to me. Most amp DIs don't have that (some do). That's why I use the DI on my MXR M80.

 

[Nomad5]

Just another thought on the matter: One reason it is preferable to run an external DI is that in the event you lose your amp signal for any reason, you won't lose FOH. Small gigs - big deal. Larger venues / concert settings - it can mean a lot. Having said that, I still like to use the DI on my Heritage SVT because I like what it brings to the FOH tone - but I have a JDI sitting on my amp at the ready. I like to "live on the edge"
Cheers

 

[dreamadream99]

There's different schools of thought here. If your amp is part of your signature sound, you should mic it, or use its post DI. If you're like me, and the amp is a mere stage monitor, then DI straight from the bass, or post effects, if you use any effects.

Something that I learned early on: the best stage sound isn't necessarily the best FOH sound. It's not always in your best interest to insist the sound engineer use your stage amp sound for FOH.

Then again, if you spent decades and thousands of dollars to acquire your signature tone (a combination of your bass, your effects, and your designer amp) then you have every right insisting it be the source for FOH.

 

[devnulljp]

I've noticed quite a big difference using a Broughton P15 over every other DI option, both for recording and also live. Can't imagine many other people would really notice, but I do, and the great sound guy I play with sometimes noticed it too, so I feel vindicated
But tbh, some gigs I just use the JDI that's always in the bag and be done with it.

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

In a live situation you can perfectly use the balanced line out of your amp. But if I'd do a live recording I'd go with very good DI (like U5).

I hear big differences in sound when using a very good DI, even when used live, but also know the majority won't. After using the countryman (very good overall DI, but active and therefor you have to use phantom) I made my own passive DI and like it better than what I've used so far (and used a lot as a studio engineer). A very very well constructed passive DI is key (for me), no matter if you use it with passive or active basses, live or studio.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

My question to all of you is, do you feel that a studio DI(REDDI, Noble, U5, Radial, etc) will cause a noticeably larger difference over just a XLR out of an amplifier? Or say, the DI out of a tech 21 or dark glass pedal. I'm curious to see what everyone has to say, especially those playing smaller gigs vs larger gigs, because a lot of professional artists drag a U5 with them, but some do not.

Well, your post says "DI vs. Amp line out", and then you compare the XLR out of an amp vs. certain DIs.. Line out is not an XLR (DI) out. Line out is just a stronger signal that does not require a Mic level input to be amplified. One of the reasons for using a DI is to convert an instrument level signal to Mic level, so that the signal can be amplified by the Mic pre. In other words, you treat the instrument like a Mic.

Regarding the differences between certain DIs vs. XLR outs of certain amps (which are technically DI outs), they'll all sound different especially when they are post EQ. Which sounds better is completely subjective. IME, most of the major amps have pretty good DI (XLR) outs to be used live. I found the ground lift option more important than anything in live sound reinforcement.

 

[Phalex]

20 years ago or more there was a huge difference. My old KMD head had a 1/4" line out. It worked, but it wasn't a pro DI. They've come a long way, but as previously stated, for studio stuff I don't think there is a better option than an honest to God quality dedicated DI box.

 

[el murdoque]

Live, I use either the DI out on my Sansamp BDDI or the DI on my Tonehammer.
I never ran into any kind of problems doing so. Ever since I the Sansamp got a fixed spot on my pedalboard,
people (FOH, the guy who's recording and mixing, musicians in the audience) are really happy with my bass tone and the quality of my signal.