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Did Verdine White really play on those great recordings?
- Thread starter gimmeagig
- Start date
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Here's a really fun video of early EWF. I love the way Verdine scares the women in the front row with his solo.
http://www.thirteen.org/soul/january-10-1973/
PS. You might have to click around on the page.
http://www.thirteen.org/soul/january-10-1973/
PS. You might have to click around on the page.
My best freind told me this years ago,when he saw him somewhere, handed Verdell his bass and was taking photo of him playing the bass to post online. It amost killed me to hear him tell it. I thought he was going to break down. im glad I didnt see it. That guy was a Bass God back in the day. I think he may have had stroke or something. I just dont want to accept that it wasnt him on those recorings. Tell me it isn't so.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
He was Maurices brother. He learned the bare minimum. Louis wrote and played the basslines on the EWF classics but played horn in the group and let them give Verdine credit on the albums. No youtube or social media back in those days to out Verdine. Would love to see studio footage of him actually playing on those EWF tunes. Credits lie especially from that era of music. You don't fall off THAT far, no matter how old you get. Look at Stanley Clarke, Ron Carter, Anthony Jackson, Chuck Rainey, Bootsy etc. There is NO doubt that they played the lines they are credited with.
It's so. Heavy on the theatrics even back then. No substance as far as bass playing.
That was scary!!
The beginning of this thread aged like milk....
EDIT: A second read through leaves me surprised no one got banned
EDIT: A second read through leaves me surprised no one got banned
Earth Wind and Fire exclusively "played" play back shows with backing tracks for a long while (not because they weren't actually perfectly capable of playing, but allegedly to be able to concentrate more on delivering a great scene show, though it is beyond me why any capable musicians would do so, kind of defeats the whole point of performing and watching live music in the first place as far as I am concerned. In my personal opinion that's for circus clowns and not musicians to do. But obviously that's not how they and their audience see it, so guess that makes the fact that I don't understand it totally irrelevant really), and in that time it is quite apparent that Verdine seriously slacked off practicing playing bass, which you can clearly hear if you find some of the videos where he really do play from that period, he frankly sounds toe cringing horrible, really sloppy technique and constantly hitting totally wrong notes and so on.
However if you dig up similar videos of him playing either from before that time, or more recent ones, after Earth Wind and Fire started playing live them self again, you'll learn that he is actually a pretty competent player, even if he never really exactly has been great at improvising and doing solos.
Being great at writing bass lines, doesn't necessarily mean that you are also great at improvising (or even a great bass player, as in the studio you can do as many takes as you like and even splice different takes together, especially if you are a big name), or the other way around for that matter.
Similar to how Roger Waters has grown from a pretty horrible songwriter/composer to a truly great songwriter/composer, but on the other hand simultaneously has devolved from a great bass player to a straight out horrible one.
If you don't practice your playing will eventually begin to suffer, though starting to practice again will quickly get you back on that horse.
As said older or more recent videos of Verdine playing bass shows he is actually not as bad at it as videos shot in between, from the period where he mostly played to backing tracks, seems to strongly indicate, but actually a pretty competent player, if not exactly ever having been great at improvising and soloing.
However if you dig up similar videos of him playing either from before that time, or more recent ones, after Earth Wind and Fire started playing live them self again, you'll learn that he is actually a pretty competent player, even if he never really exactly has been great at improvising and doing solos.
Being great at writing bass lines, doesn't necessarily mean that you are also great at improvising (or even a great bass player, as in the studio you can do as many takes as you like and even splice different takes together, especially if you are a big name), or the other way around for that matter.
Similar to how Roger Waters has grown from a pretty horrible songwriter/composer to a truly great songwriter/composer, but on the other hand simultaneously has devolved from a great bass player to a straight out horrible one.
If you don't practice your playing will eventually begin to suffer, though starting to practice again will quickly get you back on that horse.
As said older or more recent videos of Verdine playing bass shows he is actually not as bad at it as videos shot in between, from the period where he mostly played to backing tracks, seems to strongly indicate, but actually a pretty competent player, if not exactly ever having been great at improvising and soloing.
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I looked for a pic of a zombie being burned in a dumpster fire to post here but apparently that's not a thing.
Until now. Can we make this thread go away?
Until now. Can we make this thread go away?
Nah, not buying it...you don't fall off THAT far and that bad. I saw Jaco a few months before his death. He was in bad shape and played a borrowed fretted jazz bass. Of course, he wasn't sharp and may have even been drunk, he still played and sounded like Jaco. He was not playing wrong notes, 3 blind mice or another one bites the dust. He could still play somewhat. The fact EWF used to have a bass player off stage before Morris Pleasant says a lot. Had 2 buddies play in the group and a 3rd friend from Cali that verify what we all see and hear.
I don't think that's a good basis for comparison. Jaco was 35 when he passed. Verdine is practically twice that age.
I don't know if age really has much to do with how well you can play. there are many players that are getting up there in years in the sixties that still have monster chops and play great baselines. I'm 65 and I am a better player now than when I was 30. Isn't that the point we continue growing as musicians? It's different from sports.
I think it's more about if you stop caring about your craft and allow to let yourself go. Some people get fat, some people get bitter, some people let their chops go to poopie.
It's kind of a choice we all make. Currently Verdine's playing is subpar. But when I listen to the early Earth wind & fire stuff, the bass lines are just so brilliantly written and executed, I sure hope this is not a Milli vanilli thing. It would break my heart if someday it'll come out that Jamerson played on all the earth wind and fire stuff too except for a couple of songs where Carol Kaye played bass LOL
I think it's more about if you stop caring about your craft and allow to let yourself go. Some people get fat, some people get bitter, some people let their chops go to poopie.
It's kind of a choice we all make. Currently Verdine's playing is subpar. But when I listen to the early Earth wind & fire stuff, the bass lines are just so brilliantly written and executed, I sure hope this is not a Milli vanilli thing. It would break my heart if someday it'll come out that Jamerson played on all the earth wind and fire stuff too except for a couple of songs where Carol Kaye played bass LOL
lol funny Carol Kaye hahahah....Jamerson was spelled Louis Satterfield btw......lol
Im saying here was a guy who was in awful, terrible condition and he still was able to play...Verdine is probably in better shape at his current age than Jaco was at 34.....
I've seen a recent interview with Verdine and Marcus. Verdine seems like a really good guy ,sharp mentally and physically fit too. Smart guy and articulate. He's got no excuses to let his skills go down the toilet like that.
But at the same time he's been doing it for so long maybe he's just burned out on the whole music thing. Maybe other things have taken the place of that in his life. Who knows. Wouldn't be anything wrong with that.
But that whole posing thing like he's actually playing, dancing around frantically with his outdated moves, he's sort of becoming a sad caricature of his former self. Maybe he should just pass the torch to some younger guy and call it a day. Exit the game in a more dignified way.
Al McKay has a band called the Earth wind and fire experience and those guys are serious. That band is all about the music...
But at the same time he's been doing it for so long maybe he's just burned out on the whole music thing. Maybe other things have taken the place of that in his life. Who knows. Wouldn't be anything wrong with that.
But that whole posing thing like he's actually playing, dancing around frantically with his outdated moves, he's sort of becoming a sad caricature of his former self. Maybe he should just pass the torch to some younger guy and call it a day. Exit the game in a more dignified way.
Al McKay has a band called the Earth wind and fire experience and those guys are serious. That band is all about the music...
That is why I have been leaving this thread alone for quite a while. Those want to see a conspiracy will see one, and those who simply do not see Verdine White as the kind of bassist who is great at putting on NAMM shows will stick to our guns too. I simply say that Paul McCartney would probably not make jaws drop at even though at least half of the older players at NAMM started because of him. I doubt if Sting would draw a big crowd for his solo bass act either, and once again, he is a great and influential bassist.
