Dingwall Owners Club

[dtsamples]

+1 monique

 

[BurningSkies]

My main squeeze on stage is a Jule Amps Monique (Preamp/DI) although I also retain a Kern IP-777 as well. I've used a U5 on occasion as well.

...I'd add in that lots of guys seem to like their Noble preamp/DI's too.

 

[IvanBassist]

So, this might be a really dumb question, but who cares 99% of the time I go direct to FOH and it seems like for most bassists it's also the case. That got me thinking about the importance of an amp on stage. At the end of the day, it is pretty much just a big stage monitor, isn't it?
I'm assuming that investing in better preamps/DIs would be better than getting an amp. Am I missing something?

 

[EMoneySC2]

So, this might be a really dumb question, but who cares 99% of the time I go direct to FOH and it seems like for most bassists it's also the case. That got me thinking about the importance of an amp on stage. At the end of the day, it is pretty much just a big stage monitor, isn't it?
I'm assuming that investing in better preamps/DIs would be better than getting an amp. Am I missing something?

Probably just depends on what your average gigs are like, but in general I agree that getting a good DI tone first is maybe more useful. I have a Greenboy fEARful rig that's powered by a Demeter HBP-1 (basically left flat) and CrestProlite 2.0DSP. My pedalboard has an OmniCabSim Deluxe that feeds into a Radial JDI. On the JDI, the thru is for my amp, and the DI is for FOH. At that point my rig is basically just a nice stage monitor, and I'm totally ok with that.

 

[NaH]

So, this might be a really dumb question, but who cares 99% of the time I go direct to FOH and it seems like for most bassists it's also the case. That got me thinking about the importance of an amp on stage. At the end of the day, it is pretty much just a big stage monitor, isn't it?
I'm assuming that investing in better preamps/DIs would be better than getting an amp. Am I missing something?

Depends where you play. At our church, they don't have any subs at all (just some small hung speakers). If I fed bass into the system, I have a feeling you wouldn't hear or feel bass when it was played (you'd hear the notes, but I don't think it will have the same effect - you know what I mean). So my amp is my stage monitor AND going direct to the congregation. Space is the right size that in general I can get a decent feels right to me volume sitting next to it and it works for the space as well.

 

[IvanBassist]

Depends where you play. At our church, they don't have any subs at all (just some small hung speakers). If I fed bass into the system, I have a feeling you wouldn't hear or feel bass when it was played (you'd hear the notes, but I don't think it will have the same effect - you know what I mean). So my amp is my stage monitor AND going direct to the congregation. Space is the right size that in general I can get a decent feels right to me volume sitting next to it and it works for the space as well.

Oh yeah. Not feeling the bass during a concert definitely takes away from the experience!

 

[Hambone70]

Thanks for the DI recommendations!

What about a DI offering amp/cab simulation? Surely that can be an integral part of the tone that's lost going direct to the PA without it.

 

[xnewyorka]

The DSM OmniCabSim does exactly that.
For guitar and bass.

 

[IvanBassist]

The DSM OmniCabSim does exactly that.
For guitar and bass.

Was about to post that or the newer Darkglass pedals have also a switchable cab sim on the DI out

 

[Andyman001]

Thanks for the DI recommendations!

What about a DI offering amp/cab simulation? Surely that can be an integral part of the tone that's lost going direct to the PA without it.

GK PLEX?
New GK Plex Preamp

 

[EMoneySC2]

Thanks for the DI recommendations!

What about a DI offering amp/cab simulation? Surely that can be an integral part of the tone that's lost going direct to the PA without it.

The OmniCabSim has a DI, and it is an all analog cabinet simulator. Darkglass Electronics has also just recently put out the Alpha Omega Ultra and B7K Ultra v2, both with a loadable IR simulator on the DI output.

 

[Matt Dean]

The OmniCabSim is an amazing piece of kit, and should be in every signal chain.

Edit: and that one for sale in the classifieds now.

 

[Hambone70]

The OmniCabSim is an amazing piece of kit, and should be in every signal chain.

I watched the demo video on the website. I thought some of the samples sounded better without the OmniCabSim!

 

[xnewyorka]

I watched the demo video on the website. I thought some of the samples sounded better without the OmniCabSim!

I have not seen that demo. But I have been using mine for several months now, and every time I have tried a test where I turn it off, I immediately turn it right back on. It is absolutely a permanent fixture in my signal chain - I really wouldn't want to be without it, ESPECIALLY if using any distortion or hissy pedals like chorus or envelope.
At first glance, it seems very simple: bass boost, mid boost, mid cut, high cut, overall gain boost, 'tone' shaping. But when you use it, it's just magic. The way the knobs are labeled is extremely intuitive and realistic, and it can take any harsh signal coming out of a series of other pedals and turn it into exactly what you would hear coming out of an amp. I do a lot of headphone practicing, so for me, having my headphones sound like a high quality amp is worth the price of admission all by itself. The thing adds zero noise, and is solidly built. And I use it even in front of my amp. I also use a SansAmp BDDI in front of it. The two work great in concert with one another, and I can just leave the tone controls flat on the amp, or tweak them a tiny bit if needed here and there. But mostly no need to.
Heck, I should be getting a commission for this post!
You can see the whole signal chain, starting at the brown OC-2 Octaver and ending at the OmniCabSim and then Ditto, in clockwise order.

 

[BurningSkies]

So, this might be a really dumb question, but who cares 99% of the time I go direct to FOH and it seems like for most bassists it's also the case. That got me thinking about the importance of an amp on stage. At the end of the day, it is pretty much just a big stage monitor, isn't it?
I'm assuming that investing in better preamps/DIs would be better than getting an amp. Am I missing something?

You rang?

We use IEM and I send Tube DI to FOH and I still have stage volume. It fills out the feel and the deeper lows that you're not going to get in a headphone mix, and the other people in the band also request some volume on stage. Once or twice, I tried leaving my power amp bypass on and actually had several people on stage request 'more volume' from me. We also on occasion host guest players with out IEM or 'sit ins' who want to hear bass...can't do that without a rig.

Also, if you play a lot of stages (especially on the club and medium sized room level ~200 cap up to 500 cap) you'll find widely divergent sound systems for FOH and monitors. Having a quality amp that can carry stage or a room makes sense. I've been told in a ~500 cap room that there weren't enough lines for direct bass and I'd have to take care of it from stage.

While we use IEMs for any gig we can, there are plenty where we're opening or sharing bills and the situation isn't slanted for us to use our stage mixer, splits, etc. So it's back to traditional wedges, many of which are less than adequate for good bass reproduction.

 

[singlemalt]

The amp question can get expensive. Sure, in a perfect world, you signal goes di and FOH and monitors are clear and powerful enough to reproduce your tone with ease. You might not even need an amp on stage. Or be allowed an amp. You just plug into a di and that’s it.

Average bar gig? Not so much. Even larger clubs with a decent FOH can fall short on the low end. A great bass amp and cab set up can carry a room and free up PA power for other needs.

Or you could be looking at a couple three way pa cabs on poles for just vocals and acoustic guitars and everybody else is on their own for amplification. The perfect recipe for horrible sound and volume wars.

I think at the least, your signal chain should have a di at the end. If your amp craps out it’ll save you. Some sound guys will want you straight into a di, pre processing, and also take a miked line off your cab. Or a post eq. Most sound guys hate the idea of you having a bunch of gain stages at your feet that you constantly surprise them with.

There’s such a range of conditions and situations, you could have a whole forum just on amps and another on live sound.

I always have my MXR M-80 di +. It’s not a very sexy pre amp di, but it’s rock solid. Awesome for when you get a crappy surprise back line amp.

These days I’ve got a cool little Acoustic Image ten2 combo for small things and open mike/jams. For more horse power it’s a fEaful cab or two and the AI head or a Genz Streamliner.

 

[xnewyorka]

I watched the demo video on the website. I thought some of the samples sounded better without the OmniCabSim!

This is a good demo:


And this one shows very well how the OmniCabSim cleans up a distortion pedal by removing the nasty ultra-highs and tightening up the bottom end:

 

[BurningSkies]

The amp question can get expensive. Sure, in a perfect world, you signal goes di and FOH and monitors are clear and powerful enough to reproduce your tone with ease. You might not even need an amp on stage. Or be allowed an amp. You just plug into a di and that’s it.

Average bar gig? Not so much. Even larger clubs with a decent FOH can fall short on the low end. A great bass amp and cab set up can carry a room and free up PA power for other needs.

Or you could be looking at a couple three way pa cabs on poles for just vocals and acoustic guitars and everybody else is on their own for amplification. The perfect recipe for horrible sound and volume wars.

I think at the least, your signal chain should have a di at the end. If your amp craps out it’ll save you. Some sound guys will want you straight into a di, pre processing, and also take a miked line off your cab. Or a post eq. Most sound guys hate the idea of you having a bunch of gain stages at your feet that you constantly surprise them with.

There’s such a range of conditions and situations, you could have a whole forum just on amps and another on live sound.

I always have my MXR M-80 di +. It’s not a very sexy pre amp di, but it’s rock solid. Awesome for when you get a crappy surprise back line amp.

These days I’ve got a cool little Acoustic Image ten2 combo for small things and open mike/jams. For more horse power it’s a fEaful cab or two and the AI head or a Genz Streamliner.

I keep meaning to grab a little Imp2 or something similar to keep in my gig bag just in case. Luckily most clubs do have a spare DI in that ol' milk-crate...but we carry a handful of them anyway for keys and such. I also need to grab something to tuck away my LMII and put it under the seat in the van for longer runs just in case.

 

[xnewyorka]

I keep meaning to grab a little Imp2 or something similar to keep in my gig bag just in case. Luckily most clubs do have a spare DI in that ol' milk-crate...but we carry a handful of them anyway for keys and such. I also need to grab something to tuck away my LMII and put it under the seat in the van for longer runs just in case.

Yep, the Imp2 is a nice little basic one to keep in your back pocket if you need it. Instrument level only, no high cut.
If you can take the added size and weight, the ProCo DB1 adds speaker level and high cut.
ProCo Model DB-1 Direct Box | eBay

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Or you could be looking at a couple three way pa cabs on poles for just vocals and acoustic guitars and everybody else is on their own for amplification. The perfect recipe for horrible sound and volume wars.

That sounds familiar!