Dingwall Owners Club

[pbass6811]

I haven't actually used all three cabs yet, but should the need arise...

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NICE! That is a KILLA' setup. Well played, sir.

You are officially one of the mostest, coolest guys I know, on the internet, in some other state, that I've never been to...

 

[Energy]

I haven't actually used all three cabs yet, but should the need arise...

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Awesome! I bet it sounds as huge as it looks.
I don't play big shows, so the Glock and my trusty 15"/8" cab is all I need.

 

[xnewyorka]

I haven't even put a strap on it yet. I'm playing seated so I can slide the bass around to find the most comfortable position.
I have tried sliding the bass to the right to give better access to the frets near the nut. The problem seems to be more the extreme angle of the frets at the nut end, not the distance to the frets.

Then again, one objective of the 5-string for me was to not have to play near the nut, apart from playing low B to D#. There are some songs I play that use open strings on the 4-string that would be difficult (but not impossible) to play a string down at the 5th fret of a 5er.

I probably just need more practice... and learning the 3rd (5th?) position notes!

By all means try playing standing up with a strap! (Hopefully you have one available?)
Here's a short video I just threw together for you that might offer some useful tips - take a close look especially at wrist angle:

 

[Energy]

I was taught I'm not supposed to wrap my thumb around the neck...

 

[BurningSkies]

I like it!
I never bring a “security” bass when I’m trying something new, otherwise I may give-up to easily. If I make it through one two whole gigs and I’m still not happy then I know I’ve given it a fair trial.

Yeah, I generally can get to the sound I'm hearing in my head anyway, but beyond the not having a safety net to bail to, too soon, I only carry one bass because it's less for someone to steal and less pack in the van. I also currently only have one decent hard case and they can't go in the van in bags. The most recent theater show I did bring the Rastaburst (local gig) where it sat on it's Hercules stand and teased the audience until encore, when I grabbed it.

You guys are a bit more "forgiving" than I, LOL! I bring two of, almost, everything, and if something is bringing me down, especially during a gig, it gets benched ASAP. I've swapped basses, mid-set. I've swapped amps, mid-set. I've completely bypassed pedals that I used the night before because they sounded terrible the next night. The only thing I don't bring spares of is cabs, and I've paid for that on several occasions...

My philosophy is "I'm getting paid decent money to be at my best, and this piece of gear is preventing me from doing that, so I need to fix this if I can..." That's why I'm trying to get back into Dingwall basses...

I have built in redundancy on most of my rig. I don't carry a second pre/power but once we're touring wider radius than just NE I will. I have multiple backup straps, cables, power cables adaptors for all form of speaker hook ups, about 6 9v batteries, drum key, etc. Most of my effects are bypass looped, so if somethings acting up I don't change it out, I just turn it all off. My bigger frustration with effects is sound engineers who are low-passing me to low and I don't get what we're hearing in our IEMs on stage.

Generally speaking I don't worry about the 'money's worth' aspect. I'm using between 10 and 30K of bass gear on stage in any given night. It all sounds good, what I'm hearing with and fussing with is fractions of a percent.

 

[BurningSkies]

Make sure you're not trying to use the "traditional" hand on the fretboard. Relax it because the frets are angled that way. Jump in an play normal. I agree with everyone else that it shouldn't hurt. I also have a Super J that I have TI flats on and I love them. The sound (and the playability) is very smooth. Payson has a set of flats for the long scale. I've picked a set up but haven't had time to try them yet.

Wrist pain is almost always due to wrist bending in extreme or unnatural ways. I'd be looking at your overall playing ergonomics. I sometimes do get tired if I'm hanging in 1st position (we have one song that can stretch to 10 minutes plus there and is a B-string/E-string churner) and feel it in my muscles, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Take a look at the picture I posted earlier, my left wrist is pretty straight.

Next, here's a shot from a different angle:

That wrist is also straight (my right wrist does have a bend, but doesn't seem to bother me).

Same here (Fat@ss angle):

So, I'm never going to counsel someone to keep a bass that's not working for them in the long run and/or if you're having multiple things that are getting you down. And I don't think you should have to re-learn all your technique to tame a single instrument, but if you have bad playing habits, now is a great time to fix those, because I can say from experience, they do come back to haunt you.

 

[Energy]

That wrist is also straight (my right wrist does have a bend, but doesn't seem to bother me).

I too wear my bass at a height where my left wrist is straight, while the right wrist is angled. This feels most comfortable for me since I usually work more with the left hand than with the right hand.

 

[Jeff Roller]

I have almost the opposite condition. My left wrist is more comfortable at an angle, while my right wrist is more comfortable almost straight. I've broken the left wrist multiple times over the years (childhood, early adulthood, a few years back) so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

If you watch someone training in dressage, one of their goals is to keep their heels down, toes pointed up in the stirrups. It looks extremely uncomfortable!
When I pointed this out to a friend who was really good at it, they shrugged and said that's the way they trained their ankles, it wasn't a bit uncomforable.

 

[BurningSkies]

I have almost the opposite condition. My left wrist is more comfortable at an angle, while my right wrist is more comfortable almost straight. I've broken the left wrist multiple times over the years (childhood, early adulthood, a few years back) so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

If you watch someone training in dressage, one of their goals is to keep their heels down, toes pointed up in the stirrups. It looks extremely uncomfortable!
When I pointed this out to a friend who was really good at it, they shrugged and said that's the way they trained their ankles, it wasn't a bit uncomforable.

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Yeah, everyone has different bodies. Although if you're suffering joint pain in one wrist or the other, it's time to explore your ergonomics. Because I play with my right hand up off the first pickup or near the base of the neck, my right hand angle is generally not bad since my arm is angled across the 'face' of the bass' playing surface.

My thought is that with the longer neck those angles can get more extreme if you're already in the ballpark of over-flexed-strained joints. And obviously those of us who have played for decades have manipulated some of our joints in funny ways over time. Or in my case, I've also slowly screwed with my bone structure so that I have one shoulder that's noticeably higher than the other.

 

[xnewyorka]

I was taught I'm not supposed to wrap my thumb around the neck...

Yep, generally speaking you are not, that is true. But I find that abandoning that rule for playing the four lowest notes on a 37" B string really helps the ergonomics quite a bit, so the saying "rules were meant to be broken" comes to mind. YMMV

 

[BurningSkies]

Yep, generally speaking you are not, that is true. But I find that abandoning that rule for playing the four lowest notes on a 37" B string really helps the ergonomics quite a bit, so the saying "rules were meant to be broken" comes to mind. YMMV

I'd agree that I find myself doing this in first position from time to time without any negatives.

 

[bebass]

Yeah, everyone has different bodies. Although if you're suffering joint pain in one wrist or the other, it's time to explore your ergonomics. Because I play with my right hand up off the first pickup or near the base of the neck, my right hand angle is generally not bad since my arm is angled across the 'face' of the bass' playing surface.

My thought is that with the longer neck those angles can get more extreme if you're already in the ballpark of over-flexed-strained joints. And obviously those of us who have played for decades have manipulated some of our joints in funny ways over time. Or in my case, I've also slowly screwed with my bone structure so that I have one shoulder that's noticeably higher than the other.

Good points. I have broken both wrists and yet prefer long scale basses. One key to avoid injury is to always keep the wrist "gate" open. If we are in a cramped position - whatever that position is to any particular person - then we should find a solution so that the muscles are never in a tetanic contraction.

 

[Bassheart365]

Speaking of fret hand position, I ALWAYS keep my thumb on the neck directly behind the center of my fretting fingers. I find this gives me the best position, forces my little finger into playing position, generally aids in the one-finger-per-fret thing, and avoids hand or wrist strain/injury. And one of the reasons I made the switch to fanned frets (staring with the SJ4 in the top photo), was that I find them more ergonomic than parallel.

 

[BurningSkies]

...I also practice sometimes with no thumb on the neck at all. I see a lot of guys with death-grip fretting going on, and you certainly don't need it, especially with a Dingwall. You can play faster and more efficiently if you're not heavily anchoring your hand in a position or digging in that hard with your left hand. My early morning bass routine is to work regularly and consistently on reducing all fretting to the smallest softest movements I can manage. Less stress and strain means faster playing, longer playing and more accurate playing. The more you tense up your fingers and joints, the more likely you're carrying that stress out in other parts of your body.

 

[xnewyorka]

I'd agree that I find myself doing this in first position from time to time without any negatives.

Here are a couple good videos showing straight left wrist, thumb primarily behind the neck. Every once in a while, his thumb pokes out from behind the neck briefly, like Punxatawney Phil. In my case, in looking at my video, I realized I was probably just using the thumb to mute the low string. He might be doing the same.
There are all kinds of ways to mute strings: right palm, right thumb, right fingers, left fingers, left thumb. After 40+ years of playing, I realize that I use them all, without ever thinking about which method I'm using, just that it's probably the most efficient or practical method based on what else I'm doing at that moment.

 

[BurningSkies]

Here are a couple good videos showing straight left wrist, thumb primarily behind the neck. Every once in a while, his thumb pokes out from behind the neck briefly, like Punxatawney Phil. In my case, in looking at my video, I realized I was probably just using the thumb to mute the low string. He might be doing the same.
There are all kinds of ways to mute strings: right palm, right thumb, right fingers, left fingers, left thumb. After 40+ years of playing, I realize that I use them all, without ever thinking about which method I'm using, just that it's probably the most efficient or practical method based on what else I'm doing at that moment.

Muting for me is a combo of right and left hand. I've been playing the same kind of music for a while now and really it just happens without thinking for the most part. When guys talk about palm muting or hardware muting when playing reggae, I pretty much say that the real answer is just working on your finger technique. I remember when I first was doing 8th note and quicker stuff and finally finding the right hand pluck-mute-pluck-mute feel at quicker tempos and how good it felt and sounded.

Here's one that's got a lot of muting happening throughout, verging on being almost being ghost notes. Sorry for the swirly live recording...

 

[Matt Dean]

I’ve never stopped using positions from my upright bass days in college... first position.

 

[Hambone70]

Lots of great advice! Thanks to everyone. The pics and videos really helped. Hopefully they've helped others, too. I'm trying to relax my fretting hand, which is helping. I do squeeze too hard with my fretting thumb, and I probably dig in too much fingerpicking, too. New techniques for sure!

On another note, I have decided tentatively to do without a stage amp and DI through the PA. Any advice on good-sounding preamp/DIs greatly appreciated! Nothing too effects-laden, just a clean, warm-sounding tone.

 

[Joeykun]

I had an Avalon U5 just for Casino gigs that sounded great. Bass into the U5 with IEMs.
There are some others. Noble gets some good reviews as well Preamps : Noble Amplifier Company

 

[xnewyorka]

On another note, I have decided tentatively to do without a stage amp and DI through the PA. Any advice on good-sounding preamp/DIs greatly appreciated! Nothing too effects-laden, just a clean, warm-sounding tone.

There are lots of good choices across a wide range of budgets. At the least expensive end, a ProCo DB-1 direct box was the industry standard for a long time. I played many hundreds of gigs with one of those through the 80's and 90's. It still works great, if you just want the sound of your bass and no coloration. Technology has advanced, and now some good sounding stuff is available for not too much money, and some really GREAT sounding stuff is available for, of course, a bit more money. A used Tech21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI is probably your best bang for the buck on the value end of the scale. There is a V2 version now, which is not entirely necessary, but it helped soften the prices on the V1. The Jule Monique and Reddi preamps are both top quality pre's at the higher end of the spectrum. If you want to do headphone practice, the DSM OmniCabSim will let you get really nice sound for headphone practice and for recording, as well as for DI. There will be tons of other options, these are just the ones I personally own or have used. If you plan to do any serious recording and care a lot about your tone, I'd take a close look at the Jule Monique.