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Direct signals

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Denny Coon, Nov 28, 2010.


  1. Denny Coon

    Denny Coon

    Jan 10, 2010
    Ohio
    I currently live run a mike on my cab and a direct from the head using two channels and blend them...I use an SWR SM500. Although the direct from the head sounds fine, I have used Sans amps, rackmount and peddle versions. I love the Sans amp. Sounds great but that too, with blending the two channels (mic&direct) it kinda sounds the same....Anyone have any thought, preferences, advantages, disadvantages etc; that they can throw in??
     
  2. fourstringburn

    fourstringburn

    Jun 30, 2009
    New Mexico
    Interesting. if you set the sansamp or the amp's D.I. in bypass/pre-eq, that should send an unprocessed (flat, no eq.) to the F.O.H. If you do that you should notice a difference. Other than that, it seems your amp eq and D.I./sansamp eq are set for similar tones. Usually a mic-ed amp gives more of push which a cleaner direct line seems not to have, so combining the 2 usually is best. Try some more experimenting with pre-eq D.I. combination's.

    What are you monitoring your bass sound with?

    Bottom line are you happy with your sound?
     
  3. craig.p

    craig.p

    Sep 28, 2008
    New Hampshire
    Blending has always been a no-no in my book, despite its being common practice. Too many phase-related anomalies can pop up. They often manifest themselves in the sense you get that "something's not quite right." Can this be worked around at least to some extent? Sure, with enough forethought and planning and testing, and it sometimes requires extra equipment, but I've found that in most cases you're well into the Land of Diminishing Returns, especially when you factor in an audience that probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference among all the feed permutations in the first place.
     
  4. Denny Coon

    Denny Coon

    Jan 10, 2010
    Ohio
    So which do most people prefer? I love the sound that comes from my cab, but rarely do i feel like a sound man is capturing it. And if direct is the way to go do you recomend direct from the head (SWR500) or using a rackmount or direct box
     
  5. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    High-pass the channel with the mic feed, low pass the channel with the DI feed. Use the mic to capture the tone that comes from the mids and highs, the DI the low end where the speaker/mic combination don't work as well and stage noise and rumble are best filtered out anyway.
     
  6. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    i prefer to run a mic by itself, but any way you want to do it is perfectly valid as long as your mic is good for low end. if not, bill's way is the next best way imho. i do think it's better to get complimentary tones when blending rather than getting them to sound more identical, though. keeps phasing issues down.
     
  7. craig.p

    craig.p

    Sep 28, 2008
    New Hampshire
    I've always mic'd or asked to be mic'd, never had a problem other than it typically looks like hell, especially if it has to be suspended in what we used to call a spider web. Amp+cab character 100% guaranteed to appear out front if the sound man holds up his end of things. If this appeals to you, approach the sound man with the appropriate deference, ask politely and respectfully, explain what you're looking for, and he'll probably accommodate you. The times you were mic'd before, maybe a mic unsuited to the job was being used, or it could've been set up at the wrong distance. (Just a couple of possibilities.)
     
  8. Denny Coon

    Denny Coon

    Jan 10, 2010
    Ohio
    I appreciate all the help. I guess experimentation is the key. I don't believe at anytime. I've used two channels that anyone has used that technique for it. I think they always tried to get the best sound from each then turn them both up. For the record the cab is a 4x10 Mesa Diesel which I think has a very clean and deep punchy sound. Thanks. Lookin forward to tryin it.
     
  9. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    I've often had a spare crossover or a Rane DC24 compressor/limiter/expander in my soundman racks, to do bass-specific DI/mic treatment. A step above using EQ, which can also work.

    Somewhat related: the big problem with many larger venue modern mixes is that the guys doing PA run the subs very hot and hard for the kick and never seem to scale the bass tone to fit that model correctly. Some don't even care, and I'm willing to bet that others are just generally perplexed and don't know where they've gone wrong.
     
  10. Interceptor

    Interceptor

    Mar 29, 2005
    Madison, WI
    This is an issue that really drives me nuts - PA tuned for lead kick. I dealt with one PA run that way this year by feeding a post eq signal that was well, umm, neutered. That worked.

    As far as the OP's question - the issue is phasing related. The group delay of a cabinet vs. DI is going to be different. The result is some frequencies will null and others will add. This is a way bigger problem in the low register than mid range.

    The crossover or emulating a crossover with eq works, but only if the soundman is up for it. Me, I just DI and roll the dice.
     
  11. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    At one time I had four of the Rane DC24 for SR. It was easy to justify because the could be used for a number of functions. In fact for bass they were a dual-band compressor, which was a real easy way to have great bass mixes.
     
  12. craig.p

    craig.p

    Sep 28, 2008
    New Hampshire
    Yeah, well... :rollno: in my opinion, this is just askin' for it you-know where, for exactly the reasons stated by Interceptor. If you'd said, "They always tried to get the best sound from the sum" (which I believe is where Bill was going) rather than, "They always tried to get the best sound from each [prior to mixing them]," then yeah, I might be able to see some "opportunity" there.
     
  13. The mic channel may be out of phase with the direct signal. Thus the two signals are cancelling instead of adding. Try a reversed speaker cable on your cabinet. Ie tip > sleeve and sleeve > tip.
     

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