Dirty Power

[bholder]

it might be the extension strip itself? how?? I turn it off, buzz stops, but I remove all the plugs, leave it on - buzz is mostly present - unplugging things barely changes it, but the extension strip power switch kills it dead. I'm mystified, but happy.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Run an extension cord to the other room where you had it setup before and power off of it to see if the noise disappears.

I couldn’t run an extension cord with my Ampeg. It would not tolerate it, and the cord was 14 gauge, 12 feet long.

 

[bholder]

Further review it does seem to be two effects power supply adapters plugged into that strip... ...or what's plugged into them. Isolation continues. Turns out the dimmer was a small part of it too.

 

[beans-on-toast]

it might be the extension strip itself? how?? I turn it off, buzz stops, but I remove all the plugs, leave it on - buzz is mostly present - unplugging things barely changes it, but the extension strip power switch kills it dead. I'm mystified, but happy.

Sounds like you figured it out! Some made in china power supplies throw off EM noise. Some have fake certification labeling.

 

[Aloe]

you can connect the earth to the neutral which gives you PME with a very low earth loop impedance. It is safe provided the earth conductor is capable of carrying the full current capability of the supply. The earth neutral link is made before the consumer unit and any RCDs.
This means a 10mm earth conductor.
This is the preferred earthing system in the UK.

to be frank, I don't really know, how do you prefer to do it in UK, but your information might be very helpful to OP, provided, he's in UK as well. in USSR old standards prescribed to do exactly this (provided, Soviet grids didn't have ground), somewhat recently it was considered potentially harmful due to two possible things:

1. if grid somehow swaps hot and neutral, nothing good would happen
2. if neutral stops working (like a broken wire down the grid), nothing good will happen

this said, I happily used earth-to-neutral at my home for some years, until I finally made some proper earth (my gas generator desperately needed it). and I can confirm, there's no difference in audio applications between earth-to-neutral and a "proper" earth, both schemes are good and better than no earth at all.

 

[bholder]

Sounds like you figured it out! Some made in china power supplies throw off EM noise. Some have fake certification labeling.

One of them is a no-name, but the other is a trusted 1Spot - maybe it's not the actual supply but the gadgets riding off them? I'll continue tracking it down.

Also going to try the big brick from Amazon to see if it does anything to the remaining noise...

 

[Katoosie]

You may be assuming the wrong thing when you are guessing like this.

Well, I have 0 knowledge of electrical connections and wiring, so yeah - people like me who got no clue just guess/troubleshoot.

"Perks" of not owning the place you live at, I guess...

I really hope bholder figures it out. These things are impossible to ignore as someone who plays an electric instrument. I never ever knew anything about this until I had an issue.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

One of them is a no-name, but the other is a trusted 1Spot - maybe it's not the actual supply but the gadgets riding off them? I'll continue tracking it down.

Also going to try the big brick from Amazon to see if it does anything to the remaining noise...

I would caution making the brick purchase. I looked at a crapton of these things, and the simple truth is there are very few within a reasonable price range that will actually “improve” your power. I chose a Furman - the AC215A. There’s a store in Brooklyn selling them for $120 on the Verb. It only boasts two outlets, but I’ve seen the guts of it on yootoob and it’s not just a capacitor. I got it specifically to deal with a sourced power issue we sometimes experience in the summer here, NOT to “filter” any RFI or other noise. That particular unit you’re looking into comes with a 15% one and two star rating. I suspect it is manufactured using Chinesium components. You may want to read those reviews. Furman also makes a couple of less expensive strips if you’re just looking for more plugs.

 

[bholder]

Well, I have 0 knowledge of electrical connections and wiring, so yeah - people like me who got no clue just guess/troubleshoot.

"Perks" of not owning the place you live at, I guess...

I really hope bholder figures it out. These things are impossible to ignore as someone who plays an electric instrument. I never ever knew anything about this until I had an issue.

I'm well on my way to fixing the bulk of it, thanks. I thought I had checked all those effects and such, but something's a real noise antenna... and I only stumbled on it accidentally, wasn't really ready to try unplugging everything one at a time, I just caught a break when I tried the extension strip switch... ...you never know... ...check and recheck everything...

 

[bholder]

I would caution making the brick purchase. I looked at a crapton of these things, and the simple truth is there are very few within a reasonable price range that will actually “improve” your power. I chose a Furman - the AC215A. There’s a store in Brooklyn selling them for $120 on the Verb. It only boasts two outlets, but I’ve seen the guts of it on yootoob and it’s not just a capacitor. I got it specifically to deal with a sourced power issue we sometimes experience in the summer here, NOT to “filter” any RFI or other noise. That particular unit you’re looking into comes with a 15% one and two star rating. I suspect it is manufactured using Chinesium components. You may want to read those reviews. Furman also makes a couple of less expensive strips if your just looking for more plugs.

It's going back. Thanks. Furman has been on my list, should've gone with them in the first place...

 

[agedhorse]

you can connect the earth to the neutral which gives you PME with a very low earth loop impedance. It is safe provided the earth conductor is capable of carrying the full current capability of the supply. The earth neutral link is made before the consumer unit and any RCDs.
This means a 10mm earth conductor.
This is the preferred earthing system in the UK. The link is normally made at the substation and at approximately every 100 metres in the street. PME (protective multiple earthing) and it’s low impedance mean that RCDs react very quickly at low leakage.
I mention this as reference only and do not suggest it unless your local regs allow it and it’s done by a competent person.
I would suggest checking your earth before anything else on safety reasons alone

Never ever do this in a country where RCD's are not verified in use. Even so, it's bad practice because the earthing path is not a current carrying path and helps provide a quiet reference that is not affected by return currents split between the earth and neutral. It will almost always INCREASE the noise in a system because of this.

Besides, it's not legal under US or Canada regulations.

 

[Drredplate]

to be frank, I don't really know, how do you prefer to do it in UK, but your information might be very helpful to OP, provided, he's in UK as well. in USSR old standards prescribed to do exactly this (provided, Soviet grids didn't have ground), somewhat recently it was considered potentially harmful due to two possible things:

1. if grid somehow swaps hot and neutral, nothing good would happen
2. if neutral stops working (like a broken wire down the grid), nothing good will happen

this said, I happily used earth-to-neutral at my home for some years, until I finally made some proper earth (my gas generator desperately needed it). and I can confirm, there's no difference in audio applications between earth-to-neutral and a "proper" earth, both schemes are good and better than no earth at all.

I agree with you completely
It’s difficult to mitigate against all possible mis wiring scenarios.
In the UK gas and water supplies are being replaced with plastic piping which renders the earth bonding less effective
For reference again earth to neutral link is how I wire generators so everything down stream is at PME. I did an outside event when it was very dry and earthing stakes did not give a low enough impedance for the RCDs to trigger. Until the electricians could get the RCDs to trigger in less than 30ms could not get sign off which was a requirement for the public liability insurance

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

It's going back. Thanks. Furman has been on my list, should've gone with them in the first place...

The issue with the unit you’re considering is the plugs themselves - they crack. If your setup is permanent, you may consider replacing your wall outlet with a Hubbell hospital grade outlet, or the CR series they sell on Amazon. $30 or $27 depending on whether it is a 20 amp or 15 amp circuit.

 

[Drredplate]

Never ever do this in a country where RCD's are not verified in use. Even so, it's bad practice because the earthing path is not a current carrying path and helps provide a quiet reference that is not affected by return currents split between the earth and neutral. It will almost always INCREASE the noise in a system because of this.

Besides, it's not legal under US or Canada regulations.

As I stated in my post for reference only and you should comply with local regulations. PME is the preferred system in the UK and I can’t comment on other countries.

 

[JimmyM]

One of them is a no-name, but the other is a trusted 1Spot - maybe it's not the actual supply but the gadgets riding off them? I'll continue tracking it down.

Also going to try the big brick from Amazon to see if it does anything to the remaining noise...

Be careful with cheap Amazon FX power supplies. Many of them claim isolation and they aren’t isolated. What gadgets are you running?

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Hi there,

Was wondering anyone could help at all

I have a bedroom studio set up, with a pair of KRK Rokit 7 G4s, I also have an Ampeg all tube bass amplifier. The reason why I mention both of these, is because my query is based around an issue I am facing with both. Essentially when I have them plugged in and switched on, I get a lot of white noise/hiss when no sound is coming out of either (it's a lot louder from the bass amp, i think this might be down to the tubes and my main concern - hence why I have posted this thread in the amp forum). I don't think it is the amp, and if it is, this will be sorted as i'm taking it to a tech for a checkup today. It's just rather coincidental that both audio outputs (the monitors and the amp) have the same issue. I've been doing a bit of reading and think this might be down to dirty power in my home/room. I was wondering if you can suggest anything I can do to solve this issue? I've been reading up on power conditioners and wonder if this could be an answer?

https://furmanpower.com/product/10a-two-outlet-power-conditioner/

Would something like this work?

Cheers,

Mike

I have one of these on order. Here in the US via Reverb, there’s a shop in Brooklyn selling them for $120. I bought it not for any potential noise reduction but for power surge protection. It is redundant but rather inexpensive insurance.

 

[agedhorse]

I have one of these on order. Here in the US via Reverb, there’s a shop in Brooklyn selling them for $120. I bought it not for any potential noise reduction but for power surge protection. It is redundant but rather inexpensive insurance.

If your amp is safety and EMC certified to global (CB) standards, all of the protection you need is built into your amp. In many (if not most) cases, "surge protection" is nothing more than a feel good solution with no practical benefits.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

If your amp is safety and EMC certified to global (CB) standards, all of the protection you need is built into your amp. In many (if not most) cases, "surge protection" is nothing more than a feel good solution with no practical benefits.

Thank you. I’m aware that I’m gilding the Lilly so to speak. I’ve got a rather goofy power situation. I’m in a townhouse, and there is a 26k transformer not 80’ from the house. It has failed twice- the last time, rather spectacularly- I was on the deck and it blew up. We lost the card in the refrigerator. The transformer steps down into a doghouse just below the deck, not 20’ from the house. I’ve since replaced a couple of lighting fixtures and in the process, took note of rather high voltage - 132v, and at our box, noticed a low current draw with my ammeter. I like the AC215A for the additional outlet, and it’ll work for my application. I also don’t trust ANYTHING the clowns who built this townhouse may have done. I’ve replaced a switch in the basement the electricians wired with an improper one- they ganged up two hot leads on a single tab, and one lead came loose and I’m lucky it didn’t burn down the house. The switch melted, and the plate on the wall was hot to the touch. Got lucky in that the lights in the basement which we rarely use went out, and I could track that failure down to within 10 minutes.

 

[agedhorse]

A "surge protector" like that won't do a thing related to the situation you describe. It also won't do anything regarding your high line voltage. It might catch on fire however if is does not have a safety certification to UL 1449. Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon scenario.

 

[WayneP]

Hi there,

Was wondering anyone could help at all

I have a bedroom studio set up, with a pair of KRK Rokit 7 G4s, I also have an Ampeg all tube bass amplifier. The reason why I mention both of these, is because my query is based around an issue I am facing with both. Essentially when I have them plugged in and switched on, I get a lot of white noise/hiss when no sound is coming out of either (it's a lot louder from the bass amp, i think this might be down to the tubes and my main concern - hence why I have posted this thread in the amp forum). I don't think it is the amp, and if it is, this will be sorted as i'm taking it to a tech for a checkup today. It's just rather coincidental that both audio outputs (the monitors and the amp) have the same issue. I've been doing a bit of reading and think this might be down to dirty power in my home/room. I was wondering if you can suggest anything I can do to solve this issue? I've been reading up on power conditioners and wonder if this could be an answer?

https://furmanpower.com/product/10a-two-outlet-power-conditioner/

Would something like this work?

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,

White noise / hiss will not be related to any electrical service issue. More commonly, it’s simply because the equipment in question has poor background noise characteristics.

The relevant specification for electronic gear is signal-to-noise (aka S/N) ratio. I looked up the specs for your KRK speakers, as well as Ampeg’s bass amps, and they don’t even publish S/N figures.

It’s not uncommon for bass amps or combos not to have the greatest noise properties, but fortunately it’s typically not an issue on stage in a live performance setting.

But for studio or recording work, noise gets to be an issue. Thus it’s always a red flag when I see that any gear I’m considering doesn’t show a noise spec.

Typically, the only solution for a noisy component is to replace it with something better. Often this will require an upgrade in budget.

Manufacturers use different reference guidelines for S/N specs, but I like to see dBA figures in the 100 dB range, and dBU figures in the 90 dB range. Typically gear with those figures should be adequately quiet.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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