Disadvantages to headless basses?

[Inara]

The only issue I have is with the 4 string headlesses ... On 4 string basses, I like to use a Hipshot Extender for a low d, and you can't do that with headless. There's a Steinberger drop d bridge with a lever for the change, but that's the only option I'm aware of. Now that you're not limited to double ball end strings with most of them, I pretty much like everything else about them. I love the balance that comes with losing that extra weight at the end of that long lever we call a neck, and I like being able to tune with my right hand ... Makes in-song tuning corrections much easier if I detect something that's a little off.

 

[SunByrne]

OK, now this thread has given me GAS for a headless, just out of curiousity. I know some people don't like how they look but I'm sure I don't care. The entry-level Steinberger is only like $400, seems like a great travel bass...

 

[foothilla]

Yeah man! That is a killer machine! I have asked Vinnie to build me a headless even way before Matt's headless design (as early as 2005 or so). Yet, he was not keen on building one, as he wanted to endorse Steinberger's work and having suffered from his designs copied recklessly, Vinnie wanted to come up with a unique design as far as headless basses rather than imitating one that already existed in the market. Once I saw Matt's bass (and I think another Fodera fellow from LA had one as well), I got in touch with the Fodera folks and requested them to build me one with the specs of my main Fodera; just headless though. The outcome was unbelievable.

The link to that other bass is:

Flame Koa Imperial 5 Bolt-On - Fodera

Interestingly, the headless one has changed the way I look into bass building as well, as a person who assembles his own Fender-style basses. Not having a top wood like a standard Fender-style bass means no glue in the body. I believe any glue changes the sonic properties of the body of the bass significantly and to me it is in the negative sense. So the design I have started from a simple travel bass concept with no cosmetic appeal and "relatively cheap" in the Fodera league ended up sounding better than my other Foderas!

You have no idea how bad I want that Fodera of yours. Looked into it, and it is over 2X what I should be spending right now. So, jealous. That thing is beyond cool!

 

[ctmullins]

The only issue I have is with the 4 string headlesses ... On 4 string basses, I like to use a Hipshot Extender for a low d, and you can't do that with headless. There's a Steinberger drop d bridge with a lever for the change, but that's the only option I'm aware of. Now that you're not limited to double ball end strings with most of them, I pretty much like everything else about them. I love the balance that comes with losing that extra weight at the end of that long lever we call a neck, and I like being able to tune with my right hand ... Makes in-song tuning corrections much easier if I detect something that's a little off.

I bought one of those Steinberger bridges for my V build. I never play it though, because for some stupid reason I made the neck too wide. I’m going to convert it to either a 5-string or an 8-string, so the bridge is for sale.

 

[foothilla]

OK, now this thread has given me GAS for a headless, just out of curiousity. I know some people don't like how they look but I'm sure I don't care. The entry-level Steinberger is only like $400, seems like a great travel bass...

Major GAS from this thread. I just put in an offer for one of those NS CR4's to hold me over until my build is done.

 

[Scootbass1]

Anybody got a headless P bass??

Here are some pictures of the Hohner headless P type bass.

 

[Alper Yilmaz]

If I were you, I would start with the minimum basic design before spending a fortune on the bass, even if you have resources. That’s what I did with my previous headless basses built by Erkan Sizarlar.

As you see from all the views on this post, there are mixed opinions on headless gear. I love them, but there are many people who find them unattractive from a playability or looks perspective.

I would start with one pickup, no preamp, and no top wood. And if you are not sure about the woods, go for a bolt-on topology. That way, later on you can change lots of things in an additive way. Once you start having having holes on the wood, etc., it is irreversible. Once you are 100% sure what you want based on your own experience over a few years, then you can go to Fodera or another high-end luthier, and have your dream instrument... Just IME and IMHO...

You have no idea how bad I want that Fodera of yours. Looked into it, and it is over 2X what I should be spending right now. So, jealous. That thing is beyond cool!

 

[NeonVomit]

What didn't you like about the single cut?

When I do 2 handed tapping I like to anchor my right thumb on top of the fretboard. SC kinda gets in the way of that Not a massive inconvenience but it's more a quirk of my own technique than anything else.

 

[Saint]

I've only played 3 in my life for any length of time The first was a Steinberger knock-off I had to use last minute in the studio back in the late 80s when my own bass went dead during a recording session. I had -and continue to have- a hard time fretting the notes because the lack of a headstock and placement of the strap pins throw off my sense of where certain notes/frets should be. I also had to do F slides on one tune and kept getting thrown off when my left hand slid back to the low F due to a lack of headstock. Ima urge, with time and practice, both will pass.

The second is a Westone Rail I recently purchased. On this, I'm still having the above issues, but I also can't get it to lay comfortably against my body when I play.

The third one was a Status Graphite with a "normal" (as opposed to rectangular) body owned by Pete Trewavas of Marillion. I got to play with that for about 20-30 minutes and found it to be pretty natural feeling. I would seriously consider buying one at some point, but would want to play before to make sure my memory is accurate.

Perhaps my issues aren't with the lack of headstock but with the body shape and layout of the first to basses. But that's my experience for what it's worth.

 

[foothilla]

The system used in the current NS Radius basses is amazing:

So, I owe this purchase to you. Posting that video got me looking at these. I decided to buy this and see how I bond with a headless, prior to spending $4K on the Marusczcyk. So far there are things I really like, and a few things that might be a disappointment. But, I'm still getting to know the bass:

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I’d love to hear a full review, particularly how the new tuning and string change system works.

 

[SiliconElle]

Some people like basses that you can string through the body. Are there headless basses that allow that?

I’ve heard that headless basses have less sustain, but that might just be one of those myths that pop up now and then.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The exact opposite in my experience, my Steinberger rings like a piano, I think largely due to straight line string pull. I can’t see how bending a string at some sharp angle approaching 90 degrees for string through improves anything, never seen any convincing evidence that string through provides any benefit whatsoever, headless or not.

 

[foothilla]

I’d love to hear a full review, particularly how the new tuning and string change system works.

I had planned on buying this and immediately changing the nut, then setting up E-A-D-G-C (like every other 5 string I have ever owned). But, I was kinda surprised at how tight the B string sounds, compared to my previous 5 strings (2 Laklands,1 Fender, and 1 Martin). So, I am going to leave it with the low B for now. In addition, there isn't a lot of room for intonation saddle adjustment on these, and I have concerns that I might not be able to get it perfectly intonated with a E-A-D-G-C tuning.

So that brings me to the first thing I am not crazy about,....limited saddle travel, making certain strings potentially impossible to intonate. Also, while the bass' neck is perfectly balanced, it isn't a light bass, and the good neck balance doesn't seem to make it weigh any less. In fact, it's hard to explain, but the weight seems to sit all in one area of the strap, maybe even making it a bit more of a strain on my shoulder over time. The bass is just under 9 pounds, and I swear that my headstock basses of similar weight actually seem somehow lighter to me when they are strapped on,....even if they aren't balanced as evenly? Weird, I know. I'm gonna try some different straps, and see if that makes a difference. The headlessness also shifts the body of the bass forward a bit. As such, playing over the bridge pickup feels a little odd to me at the moment. The unusual control layout will also take some getting used to.

But, by far, my biggest concern is that the is a pretty noticeable deadspot (around the E note, of the G string). The G string sounds a bit dead in general, and the strings on this are almost 2 years old. I have a new set of Thomastics on the way, and I am hoping that a new set of strings and a setup will eliminate this deadspot. One of the things that most interested me about a headless bass was the common manufacturer claim of "no dead spots". This definitely has one, but like I said, I am hoping it is simply a string/setup issue that can be resolved.

Now, the good parts......

1) perfect neck balance
2) best low B I've ever had (not sloppy feeling or sounding)
3) tuning is a breeze, tuned it once, and have not had to touch it for days
4) many available tones,....from very hifi,....to warm and round

I'll let you know about string change when the Thomastics get here.

 

[sotua]

I had planned on buying this and immediately changing the nut, then setting up E-A-D-G-C (like every other 5 string I have ever owned). But, I was kinda surprised at how tight the B string sounds, compared to my previous 5 strings (2 Laklands,1 Fender, and 1 Martin). So, I am going to leave it with the low B for now. In addition, there isn't a lot of room for intonation saddle adjustment on these, and I have concerns that I might not be able to get it perfectly intonated with a E-A-D-G-C tuning.

So that brings me to the first thing I am not crazy about,....limited saddle travel, making certain strings potentially impossible to intonate. Also, while the bass' neck is perfectly balanced, it isn't a light bass, and the good neck balance doesn't seem to make it weigh any less. In fact, it's hard to explain, but the weight seems to sit all in one area of the strap, maybe even making it a bit more of a strain on my shoulder over time. The bass is just under 9 pounds, and I swear that my headstock basses of similar weight actually seem somehow lighter to me when they are strapped on,....even if they aren't balanced as evenly? Weird, I know. I'm gonna try some different straps, and see if that makes a difference. The headlessness also shifts the body of the bass forward a bit. As such, playing over the bridge pickup feels a little odd to me at the moment. The unusual control layout will also take some getting used to.

But, by far, my biggest concern is that the is a pretty noticeable deadspot (around the E note, of the G string). The G string sounds a bit dead in general, and the strings on this are almost 2 years old. I have a new set of Thomastics on the way, and I am hoping that a new set of strings and a setup will eliminate this deadspot. One of the things that most interested me about a headless bass was the common manufacturer claim of "no dead spots". This definitely has one, but like I said, I am hoping it is simply a string/setup issue that can be resolved.

Now, the good parts......

1) perfect neck balance
2) best low B I've ever had (not sloppy feeling or sounding)
3) tuning is a breeze, tuned it once, and have not had to touch it for days
4) many available tones,....from very hifi,....to warm and round

I'll let you know about string change when the Thomastics get here.

I've wanted that bass (well, the fretted version) for years - unfortunately, barring some miracle, I don't think I'll be spending 2-3k on a bass, no matter how good. Enjoy!

 

[DigitalMan]

A small side note. On the classic Steinberger bass, the challenge for me was essentially the "bodyless" design. The lack of any substantial body caused the bass neck to swing forward. I know, it's weird. But it was very real. It was like neck dive, but instead of gravity, the end of the neck wanted to fly forward and took some real effort in the left hand to hold it back.

That's all I got.

 

[foothilla]

I've wanted that bass (well, the fretted version) for years - unfortunately, barring some miracle, I don't think I'll be spending 2-3k on a bass, no matter how good. Enjoy!

Yea, I couldn't see paying almost 3K for a new, mass produced (Czech made) bass either. So I searched around,...did some begging,...and got this one for $1500. Not a scratch on it, besides some light roundwound string marks on the fingerboard.

 

[tomd999]

Hiya,

I've had 6 headless basses over the years and this I've kept since '89, one of the first Lane Poor Minima's made.

The only drawback I've found with headless basses is that every few years I see one I like and take it home. Eventually the new bass feeling wears off, I revert back to my staple P's and J's, inevitably someone sees it, offers to buy it, I say yes and watch it go down the road, setting the stage for the cycle to start again....

To that point, I'm already looking at a XT-4 in Hot Rod Yellow on Sam's site.......

 

[foothilla]

Hiya,

I've had 6 headless basses over the years and this I've kept since '89, one of the first Lane Poor Minima's made.
View attachment 3638279
The only drawback I've found with headless basses is that every 2 or 3 years I see one I like and take it home. Eventually the new bass feeling wears off, I revert back to my staple P's and J's, inevitably someone sees it, offers to buy it, I say yes and watch it go down the road, setting the stage for the cycle to start again....

To that point, I'm already looking at a XT-4 in Hot Rod Yellow on Sam's site.......

Wild bass! Never saw one of those. What scale is that?

 

[tomd999]

Wild bass! Never saw one of those. What scale is that?

Hiya,
It's standard 34" scale.

It's no surprise that you haven't seen one, they are hens teeth. The first run of Minima's was very small, only 13 instruments. (There were 7 planks selected, either #4 or #6 plank had a flaw so only 1 bass could be made from it instead of 2) This one is serial #2/2, said as: "Number 2 from the second plank" so it's the #4 bass in the Minima series.

Tom