Disappointed trade and please help.

[artitrol]

Yes, I did have some second thoughts on this particular transaction. I'd rather not go into the details publicly.

Many of you know me and know that I've sold quite a few extremely high-end basses here on Talkbass.

For the record, I quickly notified the buyer and immediately credited his account. Again, my apologies for any inconvenience.

To the OP, I won't plan on returning to the thread but I do kindly request that you delete it -- as it doesn't seem like the most productive channel for this.

Dear Joelc,

In my mind, if someone paid your more money to buy this bass, you could tell ZQ C kindly, I think it's fairly and could let ZQ C add the payment to you or if not, you could sell the bass to another. But you told ZQ C anything truth, just told him "I got the money but I don't wanna sell this bass to you", is that a right thing doing? How could the guys wanna to be a deal with you think? I was afraid that anybody could buy your anything cause everyone would think that if Joelc 've got his money and tell him he could not sell the bass which him've paid , how could him do ?

Jesus will do the different as your doing.

 

[mdogs]

Asking for the thread to be deleted only further serves to denigrate your standing in this community, you sound like you had second thoughts about selling it to this particular person even tough you already had the money.

 

[pacojas]

maybe Joel saw/heard some things about the buyer or deal that triggered some Red Flags. even if he had Buyers Remorse i don't want to persecute him.

 

[madbass6]

hey all!! LESSON BE LEARNED!! Im aware this mite be an old topic or not, but its new to me! as i just just came across it rite now! im in the market for a fodera 4 and some one recomended to check out joelc73.. wow!! im sure glad I did! that really sucks ! if you had second thoughts you should of really tought about it before he sold his Bass to buy yours ! especially knowing he was going to get rid of his Bass to purchase yours! and I agree with others, asking for him to remove this just makes you look even worse!! well I dont know about anyone else but at least now I know who "NOT" to buy my next fodera or any dream Bass for that matter from! total BS! again LESSON BE LEARNED!

 

[guy n. cognito]

Looks to me like a forgien buyer using someone else's address and PayPal account to buy a very expensive bass.

Looks like a possible scam to me. I would have cancelled this as well.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Some of you clearly aren't reading the OP. Buyer used someone else's PayPal account and domestic address.

 

[guy n. cognito]

I'm thinking the seller sensed a number of red flags and cancelled and sent refund.
Seller has 48 positives with 100% rating.
Buyer is not even a supporting member.

Even better: zero feedback and his ONLY posts are in this thread.

 

[5544]

Why is the OP being made out to be the bad guy?

I don't know the whole story but I am just going to jump to the conclusion that the seller sold the bass to someone else for more money after agreeing to sell it to the OP.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Why is the OP being made out to be the bad guy?

I don't know the whole story but I am just going to jump to the conclusion that the seller sold the bass to someone else for more money after agreeing to sell it to the OP.

Doubtful. Rather, read what the OP wrote. He used a false address and a false PayPal account.

 

[Joelc73]

I don't know the whole story but I am just going to jump to the conclusion that the seller sold the bass to someone else for more money after agreeing to sell it to the OP.

That's actually not what happened at all.

The reality is that there were enough red flags after I agreed to the deal that I was spooked. I posted earlier that I didn't want to go into detail publicly. The reason for the lack of detail here was that I didn't want to call the OP's character nor intentions into question publicly as I was really basing my actions on a gut feeling -- not fact. However, if people really need to know, here is what happened.

After the OP sent the money I learned that he wanted the bass sent to an address other than his own. He wanted it shipped this way because he was from outside of the US and was then going to have a friend ship it to him. I then learned that the account he wired the money from was not in his name either but in an LLC of some kind -- also outside of the US. His communication was also broken and difficult to navigate. Poor English does not make him a bad guy by any stretch, I include it here only as context for the situation. All of that coupled with the fact that the buyer had zero feedback, was too risky for me.

At that point, there were enough red flags that I decided to cancel the sale. I immediately refunded his money and took the bass off of the market. I did not 'sell it for more money' or to a different buyer.

I knew that a thread like this would follow and that the pitch forks and lynchings would come shortly thereafter. However, I decided I'd rather take the feedback hit on one transaction rather than risk $10K. I stand by my decision.

I hope that sheds a little bit of light.

 

[Joelc73]

Even better: zero feedback and his ONLY posts are in this thread.

Thanks Guy for taking the time to consider the nuance. Much appreciated!

 

[guy n. cognito]

Thanks Guy for taking the time to consider the nuance. Much appreciated!

No problem. Never mind sticking up for a long term member. Unfortunately, these types of buyers are getting more and more common.

 

[Joelc73]

No problem. Never mind sticking up for a long term member. Unfortunately, these types of buyers are getting more and more common.

Again -- I made my decision based on gut only. The OP is very possibly is a great guy -- I just wasn't comfortable with the circumstances...

 

[samson3382]

I had a friend that was selling a collectible skateboard and had interested buyers.
For whatever reason, he didn't want to setup a paypal, and was wondering if he could use mine.
I trust him, but I let him know that this would be a HUGE red flag to any potential buyers and likely be a dealbreaker.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Again -- I made my decision based on gut only. The OP is very possibly is a great guy -- I just wasn't comfortable with the circumstances...

I completely get that. But knowing that the money was coming from an odd source, then the bass was being sent to another, THEN shipped again to China......those are giant red flags you can't ignore. And your reputation and money is at stake if the bass is damaged or lost ANYWHERE along the trip.

Of note to those defending the OP: notice that he states that he lives in the US, but then apparently told Joel it was going to be shipped again to another country??

 

[JLY]

That's actually not what happened at all.

The reality is that there were enough red flags after I agreed to the deal that I was spooked. I posted earlier that I didn't want to go into detail publicly. The reason for the lack of detail here was that I didn't want to call the OP's character nor intentions into question publicly as I was really basing my actions on a gut feeling -- not fact. However, if people really need to know, here is what happened.

After the OP sent the money I learned that he wanted the bass sent to an address other than his own. He wanted it shipped this way because he was from outside of the US and was then going to have a friend ship it to him. I then learned that the account he wired the money from was not in his name either but in an LLC of some kind -- also outside of the US. His communication was also broken and difficult to navigate. Poor English does not make him a bad guy by any stretch, I include it here only as context for the situation. All of that coupled with the fact that the buyer had zero feedback, was too risky for me.

At that point, there were enough red flags that I decided to cancel the sale. I immediately refunded his money and took the bass off of the market. I did not 'sell it for more money' or to a different buyer.

I knew that a thread like this would follow and that the pitch forks and lynchings would come shortly thereafter. However, I decided I'd rather take the feedback hit on one transaction rather than risk $10K. I stand by my decision.

I hope that sheds a little bit of light.

I would like to apologize Joel for my earlier posts.... Nothing against the op but there were serious red flags to consider.
Next time I will wait for more info before I post/ I should have known better

Joel-you have excellent taste in basses!

 

[organworthyplayer337]

The reverse happened to me on a lesser scale. I was ready to trade my Gretsch ($750 trade value) for a G&L2000 here on TB. Turns out the seller had bought the bass here as well for a really low price because it had truss rod issues (along with other issues). But the seller didn't tell ME that. I only found out because I looked at his feedback. I'm glad I did the research beforehand

 

[5544]

That's actually not what happened at all.

The reality is that there were enough red flags after I agreed to the deal that I was spooked. I posted earlier that I didn't want to go into detail publicly. The reason for the lack of detail here was that I didn't want to call the OP's character nor intentions into question publicly as I was really basing my actions on a gut feeling -- not fact. However, if people really need to know, here is what happened.

After the OP sent the money I learned that he wanted the bass sent to an address other than his own. He wanted it shipped this way because he was from outside of the US and was then going to have a friend ship it to him. I then learned that the account he wired the money from was not in his name either but in an LLC of some kind -- also outside of the US. His communication was also broken and difficult to navigate. Poor English does not make him a bad guy by any stretch, I include it here only as context for the situation. All of that coupled with the fact that the buyer had zero feedback, was too risky for me.

At that point, there were enough red flags that I decided to cancel the sale. I immediately refunded his money and took the bass off of the market. I did not 'sell it for more money' or to a different buyer.

I knew that a thread like this would follow and that the pitch forks and lynchings would come shortly thereafter. However, I decided I'd rather take the feedback hit on one transaction rather than risk $10K. I stand by my decision.

I hope that sheds a little bit of light.

I live outside of the US. For years I have been using a mail forwarding service in the US (read: different address than my Paypal account) without any problems. There was only 1 time I needed to have a friend in the US make payment for me using their Paypal account and have it shipped to their address because Harley Davidson dealers hung up the phone after taking a $10k plus order in parts once they heard I lived outside of the US.

If you thought that the OP was using a hacked Paypal account, a simple phone call or email to Paypal would have let you known if that was the case or not. If it was hacked, then you would have saved someone a lot of headaches and if not, no harm no foul.

As a seller, you could have taken a video of the item being packed up properly for proof that it was the correct item, insured it for the full value and then required an adult signature on delivery. You would have been protected against losing any money because you would have had verifiable proof to counter any wrong doing on your part.

 

[madbass6]

Hey all.. LESSON BE LEARNED this time for joelc73. I think what made it worse ( atleast for me) was you instead of just clarifying it, you decided to ask the OP to remove the thread!
Again it just made you look shady like your hiding the truth! (worse!) In my opinion as soon as the OP posted this you had the rite to defend yourself ! Never mind worrying about damaging his character worry about defending your character instead ! I'm sure if you would of just posted what actually really happened (like you just did) this thread would have a totally different out come! thanks for clarifying!
I also apologize for my earlier comment(s)
Now that we know the truth, I agree !
way to many red flags! we're talking a 10k instrument here, Not worth the risk ! Cant blame you! ALWAYS FOLLOW THAT GUT FEELING!

 

[guy n. cognito]

I live outside of the US. For years I have been using a mail forwarding service in the US (read: different address than my Paypal account) without any problems. There was only 1 time I needed to have a friend in the US make payment for me using their Paypal account and have it shipped to their address because Harley Davidson dealers hung up the phone after taking a $10k plus order in parts once they heard I lived outside of the US.

If you thought that the OP was using a hacked Paypal account, a simple phone call or email to Paypal would have let you known if that was the case or not. If it was hacked, then you would have saved someone a lot of headaches and if not, no harm no foul.

As a seller, you could have taken a video of the item being packed up properly for proof that it was the correct item, insured it for the full value and then required an adult signature on delivery. You would have been protected against losing any money because you would have had verifiable proof to counter any wrong doing on your part.

There's many reasons that many of us here won't deal with those from other countries using fake addresses and forwarding services. For me, it's the knowkedge that after I've shipped the item to the original address.....a trip that I've packed it for and insured it against, the item them goes through countless more hands on unknown modes of transportation for days or WEEKS before it reaches the buyer. The item may not be inspected when it arrives at its original destination, or worse yet, may be completely repackaged to conform to international shipping issues. Then, when the item is received by the buyer at his real address, and is damaged, he will most likely both file a PayPal claim and leave me negative feedback.

My other reason is that most buyers that use these services try to be deceptive about it. When a transaction starts off with a lie it only goes downhill from there.

Of course, you can simply look at the lies the OP told before you jump to conclusions.