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Disappointed trade and please help.

#45
guy n. cognito said:
There's many reasons that many of us here won't deal with those from other countries using fake addresses and forwarding services. For me, it's the knowkedge that after I've shipped the item to the original address.....a trip that I've packed it for and insured it against, the item them goes through countless more hands on unknown modes of transportation for days or WEEKS before it reaches the buyer. The item may not be inspected when it arrives at its original destination, or worse yet, may be completely repackaged to conform to international shipping issues. Then, when the item is received by the buyer at his real address, and is damaged, he will most likely both file a PayPal claim and leave me negative feedback.

My other reason is that most buyers that use these services try to be deceptive about it. When a transaction starts off with a lie it only goes downhill from there.

Of course, you can simply look at the lies the OP told before you jump to conclusions.
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Sir. I let my brother made crediit union counter transfer in the bank in person. I am not a scammer. I gave seller all information he want to verify with, including my bank. The payment is not reversible as it is over the counter debit card authorized, and in person.
 
#46
Icemanaroonie said:
There's no need to argue, if the OP wanted to defend his actions he would have. Two and a half months ago.
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I can post all proof if Joelc73 agree. Again, I am not a scammer and when I paid him I told him everything he need and I am willing to cooperate with him until he withdraw the money from his bank before shipment. But he DID remorse. I have already made my purchase with Fedora directly, 2 months ago right after the fail trade. I paid with credit card. No issues. I can let Phil, who worked at Fodera verify that.
 
#47
good for you! it worked out after all! youve got to admit thou "maybe not intentional" but red flags where deffenetly there! (according to both your messages!) cant blame joec73 for following his gut feeling! congrats on the Fodera ! now its time to move on and enjoy it!
 
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#48
guy n. cognito said:
I completely get that. But knowing that the money was coming from an odd source, then the bass was being sent to another, THEN shipped again to China......those are giant red flags you can't ignore. And your reputation and money is at stake if the bass is damaged or lost ANYWHERE along the trip.

Of note to those defending the OP: notice that he states that he lives in the US, but then apparently told Joel it was going to be shipped again to another country??
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Let me explain a little bit. When I replay to him to buy, I originally asked where does he live in NYC. If it is close enough, I can arrange one of my friends to do a local pickup and cash payment. But he choose to use bank transfer, then I ask my brother paid to him on 09/16/2015. I did not push him to ship even after I made payments. He did not mention to me any concerns about the payment or wait any questions, none. Instead, promise to ship on Sat.

It is so funny in this thread he said he cancelled because the red flags or any questions regarding the payment. The fact is he regret selling it. The strong proof is that, he keep asking me to switch to another bass, instead of asking me to refunds directly. I did not want the other ones he offered, then the trade got refund.

Now it is two months later I have already ordered my base with Fodera directly he came back to this thread saying there are red flags here and there. Why wouldn't he talking about the trade earlier and not BS saying "Again, I would be willing to honor that price on the more expensive and brand new xxx(I remove the name of the bass here) or I could give you a fantastic deal on xxx(I remove the name of the bass here)" in the private conversation.

Regarding ship to my friends - at that time, I will visit my friends then fly back to China from Seattle directly
Regarding payment - I make a credit union shared branch transfer over the counter, it is the same as cash and non-reversible. I never ever mentioned paypal.
Regarding bring to China - even Fodera official guys do not ship out of US because of the export limitation of the rosewood, they insist on shipping to my designated address then I fly with the bass.

There is no questions or concerns about these during our trade.
 
#49
madbass6 said:
good for you! it worked out after all! youve got to admit thou "maybe not intentional" but red flags where deffenetly there! (according to both your messages!) cant blame joec73 for following his gut feeling! congrats on the Fodera ! now its time to move on and enjoy it!
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It is funny he said red flags two months later. He did not mention that but keep asking me to ship his another bass, not the one I paid. If he thought I was scammers, why not ask for cancelling directly.
 
#50
Joelc73 said:
That's actually not what happened at all.

The reality is that there were enough red flags after I agreed to the deal that I was spooked. I posted earlier that I didn't want to go into detail publicly. The reason for the lack of detail here was that I didn't want to call the OP's character nor intentions into question publicly as I was really basing my actions on a gut feeling -- not fact. However, if people really need to know, here is what happened.

After the OP sent the money I learned that he wanted the bass sent to an address other than his own. He wanted it shipped this way because he was from outside of the US and was then going to have a friend ship it to him. I then learned that the account he wired the money from was not in his name either but in an LLC of some kind -- also outside of the US. His communication was also broken and difficult to navigate. Poor English does not make him a bad guy by any stretch, I include it here only as context for the situation. All of that coupled with the fact that the buyer had zero feedback, was too risky for me.

At that point, there were enough red flags that I decided to cancel the sale. I immediately refunded his money and took the bass off of the market. I did not 'sell it for more money' or to a different buyer.

I knew that a thread like this would follow and that the pitch forks and lynchings would come shortly thereafter. However, I decided I'd rather take the feedback hit on one transaction rather than risk $10K. I stand by my decision.

I hope that sheds a little bit of light.
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Sir, can you explain your "gut feeling". If you feel my payment was something wrong at the moment we traded, why not ask/question it or wait until you withdraw the money to ship. I did NOT push you to ship, right?
Why you keep asking me to buy your ANOTHER bass if you feel I am scamming you? Does it make sense to sell me the bass I don't want it if I am a scammer or any red flags?
 
#51
so part two is following ? in my opinion ZQ C might actually have a good point if joec73 is trying to sell or offered him another Bass in exchange for the one they agreed on ! i mean personally if I have a gut feeling about anybody or anything I'LL WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT or HIM & STAY THE HELL AWAY! so I guess the question is, why would joec73 want to continue negotiating with ZQc considering the history and his gut feeling ? got to admit, if this is true ZQ C does have a good point! not taking sides just keeping it fare!
 
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#53
Jim Nazium said:
What is the "help" that the OP is asking for? He got his money back already.
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Agree. Fact is that none of this is legally actionable, any agreement made was verbal and if the intended buyer got his refund then there is no further recourse. The buyer presumably didn't suffer any monetary loss from selling his bass, which he would have had to do in any case, and he ended up with a new Fodera in the end. Maybe the seller was a little shady about trying to do a bait-and-switch, I can't say, but I can tell you it would sketch me right out to sell a bass and have to do some kind of hocus-pocus with international bank transfers. Furthermore, no way would I agree to a cash deal for $9500 and then have somebody show up at my house with a gun, and take my bass. This is why PayPal is the preferred way to deal on this forum. By and large it's good people here, but you have to be careful anyway. As the Arabs say, "trust in Allah... but tie your camel."
 
#54
I'm with the seller.

$9.5K is a TON of money, and if I even begin to sense something fishy (like the payment and shipping address being different) I shut it down immediately. He refunded you the entire amount, so there is nothing to complain about. The fact that you sold your bass is on you, not him.
 
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#56
Now, it's a brother paying for the bass, a friend in NYC picking up, which was declined. A new bass????

Remember, you told us above that you've lived in this country for many years. If that is the case, why is it that all of the other people are involved?
 
#57
This thread shows how profiling works in the trading business. Obviously the seller had the money on his hands and and only needed to ship the bass, at one point he had both the money and the bass on his hands! how was this a red flag? Then he decided to cancel the exchange for other reasons, maybe he got a better offer? And now is using the "red flags" as a reason for not fulfilling his side of the deal.

I have seen the same situation many times and the seller usually gets burned for back pedaling on the deal, why is not the same for this case?
 
#58
jmverdugo said:
This thread shows how profiling works in the trading business. Obviously the seller had the money on his hands and and only needed to ship the bass, at one point he had both the money and the bass on his hands! how was this a red flag? Then he decided to cancel the exchange for other reasons, maybe he got a better offer? And now is using the "red flags" as a reason for not fulfilling his side of the deal.

I have seen the same situation many times and the seller usually gets burned for back pedaling on the deal, why is not the same for this case?
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You're not reading the posts. Notice how the OPs story keeps changing? Notice how he says he lives here, yet he seems to be unable to accept delivery (hint: he doesn't live here, which means he's lying) Notice how the source of funds reported by Joel is completely different than the story told by the OP?

"Money in hand" doesn't mean what you think it means, friend. Stolen funds, either from a wire transfer or from a hacked Paypal account, can be reclaimed weeks or MONTHS after a sale, leaving the seller with neither the instrument nor the money.
 
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#59
guy n. cognito said:
You're not reading the posts. Notice how the OPs story keeps changing? Notice how he says he lives here, yet he seems to be unable to accept delivery (hint: he doesn't live here, which means he's lying) Notice how the source of funds reported by Joel is completely different than the story told by the OP?

"Money in hand" doesn't mean what you think it means, friend. Stolen funds, either from a wire transfer or from a hacked Paypal account, can be reclaimed weeks or MONTHS after a sale, leaving the seller with neither the instrument nor the money.
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This. Exactly this.

@Joelc73 I would have done the same thing. The whole thing just seems "fishy", even if it isn't. It might not be a duck. But it sure is walking like a duck, quacking like a duck, and even smells like a duck.

And if ten grand is at play, I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt every single time..... even if your feelings get a little hurt. Dang near 80 positive feedback transactions should stand for something. Clearly, Joel is not in the business of doing people wrong. Those feedback statements are what we call evidence. The only "evidence" we have from the OP is an ever-changing story of a guy who "lives in the country for a long time" but somehow can't receive his own bass here or pay for it here. Color me skeptical as well.

I'm with @Joelc73 and @guy n. cognito on this one.

And if we're all being honest here..... Hardly any of you would give a rats behind if someone got a little miffed at you for being overly cautious with $10,000. Just sayin'.
 
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#60
GNL2000 said:
Why is the OP being made out to be the bad guy?

I don't know the whole story but I am just going to jump to the conclusion that the seller sold the bass to someone else for more money after agreeing to sell it to the OP.
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So far, every single post that I've read of your's on TB has had a similar theme of "I don't know the whole story, but I will start jumping to conclusions..."
 
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