I blame the customer in that case as well. Sadly some put very little value on personal interaction and other people's time, and instead just want things for "free" and then pay as little as possible for their "stuff."
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disillusioned with 'retail'
- Thread starter wrench45us
- Start date
I blame the customer in that case as well. Sadly some put very little value on personal interaction and other people's time, and instead just want things for "free" and then pay as little as possible for their "stuff."
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
If you take up a store's time, and try out their inventory, you should pay for that convenience. That has a value, and doing that, then going to the internet to save a few bucks is dishonest IMO. Same way a good car mechanic can cost a few bucks more, but in the end you get more.
It's not really dishonest, but you should at least buy a set of strings, a strap or a stand or something from the retailer for their time.
Welcome to the weird, goofy, whacky world of retail. If it weren't for retail we wouldn't have gas stations, grocery stores, Wal Mart anything else we depend on.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Really - how is that fair to the retailer? How is buying something where they make $5 comparable? In most cases the cost will be close, if not the same - not to mention you are building a relationship.
Keep doing that, and there will be no brick and mortar retailers. Service comes with a cost.
Keep doing that, and there will be no brick and mortar retailers. Service comes with a cost.
Obviously I agree with both of these posts, but I think the spirit of MAP is to level the playing field. You can't simply Google 'Vigier Excess' and get 10 different prices. It's a simple way to gently nudge the customer to actually talk to their dealers (local or otherwise) and to not window shop so much. You'll have to work with a dealer and figure out what you need, what that's gonna cost, how long it will take, etc. It may seem counter intuitive to some (including me and my Veruca Salt generation of online buying). My experience has brought me to a place where I recognize the value of the relationships I have with my dealers and the relationships they have with their customers. The cost of those relationships is to not sell direct and to police MAP vigilantly, even if selling direct or ignoring MAP would fix some of the supply chain issues we've dealt with in the short term.
It's on the distributor or manufacturer (whoever is dealing to the dealers) to work out an effective strategy so the players who want the instruments get them without a runaround and their dealers' margins are somewhat protected.
I could rant about this stuff and feel like my paragraphs will get increasingly meandering if I continue. Good thread though - lots of great points made throughout and from all different sides.
FWIW, I don't go into a brick-and-mortar to shop. Ninety-five percent of the time, I know exactly what I am in there to buy, and my visit is usually preceded by a phone call.
wintremute
mediocrity at its finest
- Oct 16, 2014
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Best Buy was having a similar problem. People were going into the store to look at the TVs/electronics, contrast/compare, finding the perfect one...and then going online and buying it cheaper.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Mega - people like you I have no problem going on line to get the price from Sweetwater or whatever. What I can't stand is the tire-kickers who do it (like the Best Buy example above).
For example, I make custom baseball bats. Companies in China can ship their bats for less than I pay for my wood. If someone wants best price for "a bat", then I can't help them. But I have entire leagues all the way across the country who pay me to give them something - and I charge a fair price for that. Same thing for brick and mortar - part of what they offer is the ability to try things out in person. Because of that, they have additional costs. The customer should understand that, and if they are going to use those services, they should pay for it.
I loved hanging out at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore, and made it a point not to treat the place simply as a reading
library, but rather to actually purchase something occasionally so as to support the business. Unfortunately, most saw the bookstore
as a free news stand, somewhere to browse and read after spending money at the adjacent Starbucks. No more book store.
I've never set foot in a Walmart, and never will. So that isn't something I depend on. I do however support local small businesses.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
^ No Static and JWFThank you for another great example. Yeah, people spent the night reading there, maybe bought a cup of coffee where the store made a buck net. Now we have almost no bookstores anywhere. My wife and I used to go there after movie dates, and would make sure we spent money there. Same way if you have someone come to a gig, and they spend the night nursing one coke, it ain't helping you when the venue looks to see how much traffic you brought it.
It's important to not be a cheeps**t when it comes to supporting your local community. Or be prepared to watch it disappear around you.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
$1000/month for a car payment isn't that atypical. Engineers, lawyers, doctors, bankers, psychologists, salesmen, real estate agents, mid to upper level managers and administrators, politicians...I could go on, and I'm only listing people that I know personally that have $1000 or more in a car payment monthly.
Anyway, 50% (give or take 10%) is a pretty common markup, as has been discussed at length here. Basically I don't buy anything new anymore, unless a) I want or need to take advantage of some sort of financing/credit option, or b) the product is unique and/or rare and/or comes from someone or someplace I want to support - recent cases in point including buying a custom built bass direct from the luthier, and a few pedals direct from the boutique manufacturer.
I won't even get started on how this topic overlaps with how businesses create the illusion of value and exclusivity to their products, thus artificially inflating value...like the prices of Fenders today, seriously???...because that would be too OT and should be a whole other thread.
Anyway, 50% (give or take 10%) is a pretty common markup, as has been discussed at length here. Basically I don't buy anything new anymore, unless a) I want or need to take advantage of some sort of financing/credit option, or b) the product is unique and/or rare and/or comes from someone or someplace I want to support - recent cases in point including buying a custom built bass direct from the luthier, and a few pedals direct from the boutique manufacturer.
I won't even get started on how this topic overlaps with how businesses create the illusion of value and exclusivity to their products, thus artificially inflating value...like the prices of Fenders today, seriously???...because that would be too OT and should be a whole other thread.
- Sep 4, 2010
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I think there is another aspect to the car industry analogy - famously GM became the largest manufacturer by convincing the American people that instead of a T-Ford, a simple tool that you won't have to replace if you use and maintain it carefully, you need a shiny new car every few years (=the same car with a different sparkle and gee-wizz, a radio!) with a recurring gigantic write-off. While the luthier artisan will build you a bass that lasts you a lifetime that can do it all, the standard manufacturer who supplies the stores wants you to buy this year's new model which is last year's old variant which is, well, a P-bass/T-Ford. I work in publishing and it is the same: we push out 'new' books every year, new editions and what not, where the edtorial staff is really breaking its head over how to present the same content in a new way. It keeps America going-I wouldn't have a job if not for this economic model, and without a job i wouldnt have been able top buy the AVRI P-bass I didn't really need on a 36 month-no-interest plan. 
$1000/month for a car payment isn't that atypical. Engineers, lawyers, doctors, bankers, psychologists, salesmen, real estate agents, mid to upper level managers and administrators, politicians...I could go on, and I'm only listing people that I know personally that have $1000 or more in a car payment monthly.
Anyway, 50% (give or take 10%) is a pretty common markup, as has been discussed at length here. Basically I don't buy anything new anymore, unless a) I want or need to take advantage of some sort of financing/credit option, or b) the product is unique and/or rare and/or comes from someone or someplace I want to support - recent cases in point including buying a custom built bass direct from the luthier, and a few pedals direct from the boutique manufacturer.
I won't even get started on how this topic overlaps with how businesses create the illusion of value and exclusivity to their products, thus artificially inflating value...like the prices of Fenders today, seriously???...because that would be too OT and should be a whole other thread.
Thanks for elaborating -- sure a whole lotta depreciation goin' on out there.
And please DO start a thread on artificially inflated value -- such discussions, while contentious, are inevitably some of the most interesting on the website -- they really
challenge fundamental assumptions and beliefs about reality, sometimes to the point where things get downright epistemological. All with just four strings!
One generalization about the present topic: I would posit that many here are "disillusioned with retail" largely because they've already "been there, done that" with most of the gear at GC. These are simply jaded consumers.
In rural Iowa where I live, you go to Wal Mart 10 miles away or you go to Des Moines 50 miles away. We don't have a choice, especially during winter. I find no shame in saving money at Wal Mart, but then again I'm retired on a fixed income. Wal Mart's clothes are like a lot of bass guitars..... made in China.
I've never set foot in a WalMart either. I don't like their business model so I stay away. Of course I don't think they are really missing my business.
