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Dive bars - how do they do it?

You'd probably have to know the business names these bars are operating under. I knew of a family in Daytona Beach, FL that owned several businesses on the Boardwalk in the Main Street area which included a sleazy dive bar. Anyway, if this article is accurate, the bar was at least laundering counterfeit money. This is one that went wrong, but how many are fly by night dive bars that don't last as a failing business. And then there are dive bar businesses like this that are legitimate business person's hobbies.

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One of our fairly regular gigs is famous for it's very popular chicken wings. There parking lot is mostly full every evening with many of the people getting orders to go. Customers coming and going regularly with those wings orders. Bands play every Friday from 7 to 11. We are a 4 piece and get that $400 and the bartenders are always telling me they had a great night. Last week I heard a very "happy" man say "we need more dive bars like this". I would estimate we play for between 60 to 80 people at a time and they don't seem to be the brewery and winery type. Loud and partying all evening and very appreciative of our band.
 
12 people would have to spend $34 dollars each to break even on a $400 payout. Not hard to do at a bar.
12 people spending $34 each adds up to $408. If the band is getting $400 that leaves $8 to pay the bar's rent, electricity/gas bill, insurance, bar and kitchen staff wages, plus the cost of the alcohol those 12 people drank. They are a long way from breaking even yet.
 
Anyone ever wonder how these little rinky dinky dive bars manage to fork out $400+ for a Friday night band despite an average draw of less than 12 heads?

I have wondered. There's a couple of small venues near us, and I've played at one of them. They pay a reasonable rate for live bands despite very small audiences (12-15 people). I really can't see how they can be making a profit on the night the band play. My best guess is they take a financial hit to have live music a couple of times a week to promote an image/reputation as a fashionable live music venue that people visit through the week, coffee, lunch etc. Just my guess though.
 
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I sometimes wonder about this. There one dive I used to play in, the kind that's attached to a pizza joint, where they said they couldn't afford bands anymore, or not $300-400 for one, and cut it back to $200 and started having acoustic acts and such. I think that there are some of these places where having a joint where bands play is more of a vanity for the owner than a business model. Sometimes the bar itself is a vanity - they made their money doing something else and their dream was to run a bar in retirement. Sometimes in the old places, the building is owned outright and paid off and they don't have a lot of expenses besides utilities and one or two staff. Here in NH we have NASCAR races in Loudon and Bike Week in Laconia and that brings a lot of traffic through, mobile people who pour lots of money into all the bars around, not just those towns. I suspect that's a big cash infusion, like Christmas season for retail stores, and then they run on that the rest of the year.
 
The story goes that a lot of retailers aren’t profitable until the day after Thanksgiving.

So maybe all of the big revenue bar days like: sporting events, Halloween, St Patricks Day, NYE, Thanksgiving Eve, etc fill those coffers.

They have to make money at some point during the week.
 
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Many dives around here closed down during and shortly after the pandemic. I was wondering how they kept going for so long before that, and well, mostly they didn't, really. Covid was just the last straw for many dive bars, regular bars, restaurants etc. here in Switzerland.

Those bar people that actually own the premises they're in, rather than paying rent, seem to be a bit better off. But they all invest loads of unpaid personal work hours, use underpaid staff if possible, or slowly eat away at their savings for the love of the game.

Sort of unexpected to me, what Covid accelerated was the "underpaid staff" bit, more than the "you need to close down for a couple of months, and afterwards, patrons need to wear face masks." But so many waitresses and waiters, cooks, sound techs etc. were laid off during the pandemic that a critical mass apparently decided to reorient their lives and go into less unstable businesses / forms of employment. The remaining bars and venues are struggling, and I fully expect another wave of closures around summer, early next year the latest.

(Disclaimer: I'm not in the business myself, but a journalist who's been working on/off on a larger piece about the topic. So, anecdotal, but made from many many people I've already talked to about it. Still – anecdotal, take with a grain of salt and whatnot.)
 
You have a dozen bars in Niagara that pay $400 a night?

I'm sure Niagara is smaller than Vancouver, B.C. and some of the bars and restaurants here don't pay at all but let you pass the hat.

And they wonder why there is a large homeless camp downtown.

It's like that in Toronto too. I think in the cities, they know a place is gonna be packed whether or not they have a band, and there's ten thousand bands who salivate at the idea of occupying on-stage real estate for free.

From my experience, most music fans in cities are into their niche artists and scenes - they could care less about some guys they've never heard of playing mostly top 40 rock and country covers.

Niagara is a bit different. It's a mixed urban/rural region with a couple country/western venues - the places get packed with kids whose expectation is there's a Friday night band that will play all the hits. There's probably a bit of supply/demand at work which is why the going ratw is better than a metropolis but maybe not as good as, say, out west
 
One of our fairly regular gigs is famous for it's very popular chicken wings. There parking lot is mostly full every evening with many of the people getting orders to go. Customers coming and going regularly with those wings orders. Bands play every Friday from 7 to 11. We are a 4 piece and get that $400 and the bartenders are always telling me they had a great night. Last week I heard a very "happy" man say "we need more dive bars like this". I would estimate we play for between 60 to 80 people at a time and they don't seem to be the brewery and winery type. Loud and partying all evening and very appreciative of our band.

Sounds like they should be paying you more.
 
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It's like that in Toronto too. I think in the cities, they know a place is gonna be packed whether or not they have a band, and there's ten thousand bands who salivate at the idea of occupying on-stage real estate for free.

From my experience, most music fans in cities are into their niche artists and scenes - they could care less about some guys they've never heard of playing mostly top 40 rock and country covers.

Niagara is a bit different. It's a mixed urban/rural region with a couple country/western venues - the places get packed with kids whose expectation is there's a Friday night band that will play all the hits. There's probably a bit of supply/demand at work which is why the going ratw is better than a metropolis but maybe not as good as, say, out west
Well yeah, in the scene my friends and I play in, it is in the rockabilly/classic country vein, Zydeco, Cajun and alterna/country-ish singer songwriter genres. You're right, there is a specific audience for that music and here in Vancouver, only a handful of venues that support it as in letting people play on their stages, but don't pay anything.
 
Many dives around here closed down during and shortly after the pandemic. I was wondering how they kept going for so long before that, and well, mostly they didn't, really. Covid was just the last straw for many dive bars, regular bars, restaurants etc. here in Switzerland.

Those bar people that actually own the premises they're in, rather than paying rent, seem to be a bit better off. But they all invest loads of unpaid personal work hours, use underpaid staff if possible, or slowly eat away at their savings for the love of the game.

Sort of unexpected to me, what Covid accelerated was the "underpaid staff" bit, more than the "you need to close down for a couple of months, and afterwards, patrons need to wear face masks." But so many waitresses and waiters, cooks, sound techs etc. were laid off during the pandemic that a critical mass apparently decided to reorient their lives and go into less unstable businesses / forms of employment. The remaining bars and venues are struggling, and I fully expect another wave of closures around summer, early next year the latest.

(Disclaimer: I'm not in the business myself, but a journalist who's been working on/off on a larger piece about the topic. So, anecdotal, but made from many many people I've already talked to about it. Still – anecdotal, take with a grain of salt and whatnot.)

This definitely resonates as accurate, and hey, your journalism is worth listening to. I don't know if it was the case in Switzerland, but I know that here in the US the restaurant/hospitality industry trade media was already warning that the field was oversaturated - too many bars and restaurants and not enough cooks and staff for them all. Even without Covid it was due for a shakeout.

I have a full-time job I love, teaching university, but it's a year-to-year contract in an institution under huge budget pressure, so I have had my eye on the door and what else I might do. I had been investigating going into tourism in the event academia kicked me loose. But Covid kind of killed that - I realized how vulnerable it can be. So I think you're right about people reassessing their employment.
 
Why does my stinky little bar band continue to work? Because we don't play to half-empty rooms. We get hired because we draw. That's all there is to it. I don't ask and don't really want to know what else might be going on. Several of the joints we play went under during 2020 and 2021. So our BL went shopping for new venues, and found some. Separately: Last summer we got a lot of private parties. We'd get hired for one, and inevitably some guest would approach us about having their own. We are happy to take rich people's money.;)
 
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Why does my stinky little bar band continue to work? Because we don't play to half-empty rooms. We get hired because we draw. That's all there is to it. I don't ask and don't really want to know what else might be going on. Several of the joints we play went under during 2020 and 2021. So our BL went shopping for new venues, and found some. Separately: Last summer we got a lot of private parties. We'd get hired for one, and inevitably some guest would approach us about having their own. We are happy to take rich people's money.;)

Hmm... I don't always draw and we get calls... you know what? I think you might have successfully solved my mystery.

-Be country band.
-Draw country fans.
-Dive bars see draw.
-They book the country band in hopes of similar draw
-The 5 or 6 country fans in the room are over the moon
-Everyone else gets up and leaves.

And if we are lucky...

-the country fans run up huge tabs
-Owner sees high liquor sales.
-We get rebooked.
-Bartender is left scratching her head.

It's really wierd. Modern country is super duper polarizing where I live, a lot of people can't stand it, but if someone likes it, they LOVE it. Like they know the lyrics better than my singer. I find myself either playing to as many amped up kids you can legally pack in a country bar/county fair, or, to a couple people drinking Joe Blow's bar dry (and a lot more glaring and reaching for their jackets).

Thank you for your revelation sir.
 
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Hmm... I don't always draw and we get calls... you know what? I think you might have successfully solved my mystery.

-Be country band.
-Draw country fans.
-Dive bars see draw.
-They book the country band in hopes of similar draw
-The 5 or 6 country fans in the room are over the moon
-Everyone else gets up and leaves.

And if we are lucky...

-the country fans run up huge tabs
-Owner sees high liquor sales.
-We get rebooked.
-Bartender is left scratching her head.

It's really wierd. Modern country is super duper polarizing where I live, a lot of people can't stand it, but if someone likes it, they LOVE it. Like they know the lyrics better than my singer. I find myself either playing to as many amped up kids you can legally pack in a country bar/county fair, or, to a couple people drinking Joe Blow's bar dry (and a lot more glaring and reaching for their jackets).

Thank you for your revelation sir.

Whatever.