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DIY 210....a little help?

hobbes1

hobbes1

Nov 3, 2006
418
28
sites.google.com
#1
i have a mesa boogie 1516 at present. while this is a good sounding cab, it weighs about 150LB and is not practical to carry around. i am thinking about building my own 2x10 cab, maybe two of them. i am running a mesa boogie m-pulse 360 head.

i've read a lot of DIY threads here and one thing i'm wondering: do i really have to install a tweeter or HF driver? i don't really care for all the high end the 1516 can deliver and keep the tweeter control all the way down and usually cut the treble on the head and the bass guitar as well. i want a good low end but punchy mids and not a lot of high frequencies.
i'm thinking about using two eminence bp102 speakers and making the cab ported, about 1.1 ft3 per side. cost is an issue here and while i don't really want too much high frequency, i also don't know jack about crossovers, how to wire them, which one to buy, etc and am trying to keep costs down.

will i be wasting my time building without a HF driver?
any ideas or advice would be appreciated!
thanks
 
#2
well you dont have to install a twetter but a midrange driver could be a good idea ..like a 6.5

i tried myself to design a 2x10..but when i compared it with a fEarful 12.6 or 15.6 it wasn't even funny.

the fEarful 12.6 is smallish (for it's performance) and i think you could get it done in the same price range as your 2x10..but the plans for the 12.6 already exist..have been optimised (same for the crossover)

go to the amp FAQ and search DIY and search there..also go to the wiki page of the fearfuls

hope it helps
 
#3
hobbes1 said:
any ideas or advice would be appreciated!
thanks
Click to expand...
Don't attempt to design your own cab. Your questions are like a guy wanting to design his own airplane asking if he needs wings. If you must DIY build a tested design, like that in the fEarful threads, but be aware that DIY isn't going to save you money over a basic cab, especially a used one.
 
#4
to address one of your issues - if you decide against a HF driver you will not need a cross-over. just run the 10's full-range.

as the previous posters have stated, there are a few diy solutions out there that have already been designed and built and used by several TB'ers.

greenboys series of fEarful cabs are one option. they use lightweight speakers so ar a bit more manageable.

billfitzmaurice (he has already chimed in) also sells plans for his cabs as well. google search his user name and you will find his site. it has been a while since I have checked out what he is doing lately but I am sure there is something there that will suit your needs.

both of these guys have designed cabs that meet or beat most, if not all, commercial offerings. there are a lot of people that have built there cabs and have nothing but good things to say about them.
do your research and be aware that this is not just as simple as putting a speaker in a box. greenboy and billfitzmaurice have put in a lot of time into these designs. also understand that there really is not perfect solution...there is a lot of compromise that comes with into speaker cab design. ultimately you will end up deciding on what is best suited to your needs.
 
#6
hi. thanks all for the input. actually, rather than designing from scratch the cabinet, i have found a prebuilt, MDF 2x10 box with slotted port for a low cost. i am not under any allusions that this might be better than an aguilar or bergantino cab. i just wanted to know whether or not the general consensus is that one "must" have HF driver onboard in order to, for example, not damage the speakers. i can easily see the frequency response of the speakers themselves (the 10" spkrs) and know that they pretty much cover the spectrum of sound i tend to generate in my playing. i spend 95% of my time between 1-12 frets, strings 2-5 and don't really need the extended range a HF would provide. i just don't want to damage the 10" drivers.
i know the differences and the pro's and con's between MDF and 13 ply BB, i know sound is in the ear of the beholder, i know that one man's great sound is another man's farts, so i'm really not looking to "see if the plane needs wings or not". just need an opinion or three on running without HF or mid drivers, if anyone can give it. thanks
 
#7
billfitzmaurice said:
Don't attempt to design your own cab. Your questions are like a guy wanting to design his own airplane asking if he needs wings. If you must DIY build a tested design, like that in the fEarful threads, but be aware that DIY isn't going to save you money over a basic cab, especially a used one.
Click to expand...

I know you're the expert, but for the price I doubt you could beat a TL-606/3015.

$130 driver
$30 Lauan ply (Not perfect but hey its not MDF)
$5 1x3s
$15 Clearance carpet (Scrappy small pieces are sold cheap)
$40 assorted hardware (Couple of kitchen cabinet handles, hardware cloth grill, etc.)

These are ballpark, but are you going to find anything that hits 100 db/W/m for $220ish? Especially when you factor in how small it is compared to your average 98 db/W/m 410.



Or am I completely off base?
 
#8
hobbes1 said:
hi. thanks all for the input. actually, rather than designing from scratch the cabinet, i have found a prebuilt, MDF 2x10 box with slotted port for a low cost. i am not under any allusions that this might be better than an aguilar or bergantino cab. i just wanted to know whether or not the general consensus is that one "must" have HF driver onboard in order to, for example, not damage the speakers. i can easily see the frequency response of the speakers themselves (the 10" spkrs) and know that they pretty much cover the spectrum of sound i tend to generate in my playing. i spend 95% of my time between 1-12 frets, strings 2-5 and don't really need the extended range a HF would provide. i just don't want to damage the 10" drivers.
i know the differences and the pro's and con's between MDF and 13 ply BB, i know sound is in the ear of the beholder, i know that one man's great sound is another man's farts, so i'm really not looking to "see if the plane needs wings or not". just need an opinion or three on running without HF or mid drivers, if anyone can give it. thanks
Click to expand...

You can run without HF or mid drivers. There is no risk of damage from feeding the drivers with a full range signal.
 
#9
SpamBot said:
I know you're the expert, but for the price I doubt you could beat a TL-606/3015.

$130 driver
$30 Lauan ply (Not perfect but hey its not MDF)
$5 1x3s
$15 Clearance carpet (Scrappy small pieces are sold cheap)
$40 assorted hardware (Couple of kitchen cabinet handles, hardware cloth grill, etc.)

These are ballpark, but are you going to find anything that hits 100 db/W/m for $220ish? Especially when you factor in how small it is compared to your average 98 db/W/m 410.

Or am I completely off base?
Click to expand...

Completely on base. I'd lose the carpet and cut the hardware budget down to nearly zero. Also, I'd use offcuts from the plywood itself for bracing, and throw the savings into a slightly nicer kind of plywood, just because 1/2 inch balkan birch isn't prohibitively expensive, and is really easy to work with.

If the design provides some wasted space on the front baffle, cut a hole for a 6.5" mid, and blank it off in case you ever decide that a mid would be desirable.

But the OP's got a box. :D
 
#11
Before you go any further you need to bust out the tape measure and get a gross internal volume of the box you have (assuming you've already bought it). Exclude any space taken up by the port and whatever else may be there as far as bracing/hardware etc. That'll give you (or anybody else) some ballpark as far as what drivers will work in there. Notice you haven't allowed for the space taken up by the drivers themselves because you don't know what they are yet. This could vary a little by frame and magnet structure but there's a ballpark there too.



Then you need to measure the internal volume of the port itself, this will give you some idea of what the box is currently tuned to and what adjustments will need to be made depending on what driver you eventually choose.



That means you need to download WinISD, look it up, and learn what freqencies and response patterns sound good to your ear. Learn to translate what you want to hear to that line on the graph. That can take a while and usually turns into a trial and error thing. Read up on dispersion patterns as well and figure on standing your 210 on end so the speakers are aligned vertically, consider what that may change as far as where the feet and handles go, amps/racks sitting on it, etc. Read up on what a displacement limit is and learn why your typical 800watt 410 can't handle nearly 800 watts.



Consider the impedance of the system and how that relates to the amp you're using or one you plan to get. Having the ability to chain a second one to it to expand the rig plays in there as well.



Lots of things to consider but you can have a good sounding rig with a couple of 10's and a box.....if thought out and done properly. Or you can build a design that has been proven and will outperform most any commercial offering that you can hope to afford. The quickest way to the latter is to do just that. If you're interested in gaining some knowledge about just how your stuff works and why it sounds the way it does, lots and lots of reading and a good bit of trial and error works for me.



Anyway, for now, put some measurements up here to get any good advise and use the modeling program to figure out the lowend of things and read response charts to find something you like above that. Maybe you'll get bitten by the bug and say to hell with buying cabs anymore. Maybe you'll end up saying screw this and buy something you think sounds good but you will have learned something along the way.
 
#13
hi will33:

gross internal volume of the box is approx 2.2 ft3
drivers are eminence bp102 x 2 at approx 0.05 ft3 each (volume displaced within the box)
the port is approx 2.5" h x 12" wide x 10.5" L
tuning, if i calculated correctly is around 43Hz. as the Fs of the speaker = 35Hz, is that a significant enough difference to allow the speakers to possibly bottom out on the low B?

the two speakers, wired in parallel will yield a 4 Ohm load which is fine with the m-pulse. i don't have the head with me but from mesa's website, the owner's manual shows the amp can handle a 2 ohm minimum load. so even two of these cabs could be hooked up to the m-pulse.
if you have any more questions or corrections for me..fire away. if you care to comment further, thanks in advance!

doodaddy: thanks for the reference to the Jack. i will keep that in mind for a backup if this doesn't pan out.
 
#16
majortoby said:
All I can say, is if you want to DIY, go BFM!
Click to expand...

IMG_0235.jpg


I couldn't agree more.

Too bad the flash shows the stuffing in the cab when you otherwise couldn't see it! That;s my Jack 210 with a Conklin I know longer have. My cab now has the Deltalites in it instead of the Hartkes as well.

(Yes, that is a BFM Tuba 36 in the background. :p)
 
#18
Doodaddy said:
IMG_0235.jpg


I couldn't agree more.

Too bad the flash shows the stuffing in the cab when you otherwise couldn't see it! That;s my Jack 210 with a Conklin I know longer have. My cab now has the Deltalites in it instead of the Hartkes as well.

(Yes, that is a BFM Tuba 36 in the background. :p)
Click to expand...

Did you use S2010's? What type of plywood? (BB, Arauco..etc)

What is the total weight of you Jack210?

Nice looking cab BTW
 
#19
ian_s said:
What is the range in cost for raw materials to build a Jack 10?
Click to expand...

I just built a pair of Omni 10.5's (the predecessor to the Jack) and have built an Omni10 (predecessor to the Jack 210).

Cost for materials - about $150, plus drivers. You could bring that cost down if you shop carefully, I was in a hurry so just ordered everything rather than searching for great deals on particular components.

Don't scrimp on drivers. The advantage of building a cab is NOT that you can do it cheaper than you can buy a cab. It's that you can build and get a MUCH BETTER cab than you can buy unless you spend WAY more money.
In other words - you'll have a hard time building a better $200 210 cab than you can buy used.
But you can build a $300/350 cab that will equivalent or better than anything that you can buy for under $800.
 
#20
Oh, and just 'cos - here's my BFM Omni10 and Omni10.5. Together they make a kicking 310 vertical stack. Modularly, they work for any gig from tiny to big.

omnistack_s.jpg
 

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