Do all cabs feel like a compromise?

[bottomzone]

As others with expertise in speaker cabinet design and manufacturing have already said, there are always compromises to deal with. The laws of physics can't be ignored.

 

[Jim C]

Jim C, Which Bergantino? I'm interested in the HDN112, but I've only gotten to play through it once in a store. With many other companies, I know which woofer they use. I don't know on the Berg.

The cabinet is a HT-322 that is no longer made but available on the used market.
1x12; 2x10; and a horn
With casters it is right about 100 lbs.

It can get "studio monitor" clean and detailed with massive clean low end if you set up your amp that way
or
Turn off the horn and it is an awesome cabinet that is not full range

Years ago I asked Jim Bergantino about suggested amplifiers as I had read it wants to see big power
He said that it was one of his favorite cabinets (at that time) but not a huge seller due to weight.
At the time I used either an SVT, or SVP-CL / led sled to drive it and it sounded incredible.
He had mentioned that many customers used pre/power rigs but also said that Ashdown users loved it.
It has custom drivers and crossover(s) and sounds like God.
It does stay home most of the time for smaller gigs.
One of these days I'll try it with a MB800 Fusion although if you're OK schlepping a 100lb cabinet, a 5lb head isn't all that important.

 

[Dp1363]

I’ve looked at them, but hats it. Never had a chance to hear one. Two Big Baby II cabs would likely cover what I want, but who knows how they would sound.

I have two, they sound amazing. Best cabs I evert played through Can get real low and do crystal clear highs. Very powerful.

 

[RWebb]

Check out Boom Bass Cabinets. They have an innovative design and sound great. I have the BBC Tank 1215.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Check out Boom Bass Cabinets. They have an innovative design and sound great. I have the BBC Tank 1215.

I own one. (Up for sale actually)

 

[VancouverMatt]

I haven't tried some of the cabs mentioned here (e.g., Epifani, Bag End, MarkBass, etc), but my old Mesa/Boogie Diesel 4x10 + 1x15 stack sounds better than anything I've used before, including Ampeg and GK. I'm driving it with a GK MB800 head, and I get great punch and warmth, along with huge sound. The main drawback to the Diesel cabs is the fact they don't include a roadie, or a chiropractor.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Side note - anyone know what the deal is with people quoting the OP with no comments? Is it a bot thing?

 

[Jeff Scott]

Just had to try that.

 

[bassdude51]

The most perfect cabs seem to be Bergantino, Acme and the Greenboy/Fearful. But, you are correct. There is no perfect cab. And if there was a perfect cab, it would not be universally accepted as a perfect cab because "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"...............so to speak. One bassist's perfect cab is another bassist's anti-perfect cab.

Let your ears be your guide.

 

[Lepparda]

I have tried various cabs over the years and it depends on the tone you are after, but it find it hard to go past a pair of Aguilar DB112s or a DB410. I also use Bergantino HD112s and HD210s which are great in a variety of combinations but they don't have the depth of tone that the Aguilar cabs have.

 

[R Baer]

With basses and even amps you can buy no holds barred, high end basses and amps that don’t cut any corners on quality or construction. But cabs always seem to be a compromise - heavy weight, rat fur or tolex, Duartex that’s gooped on, no t-bolts, cut corners on the crossover, etc. I guess the closest to a high end cab that I would consider “ideal” is the Greenboy F112, but I dislike the wedge format. It seems like everyone is trying to keep costs down on cabs where that’s not usually the case with basses. And you don’t hear a bass, you hear the notes from the speaker. I’ve found my ideal bass, but the quest continues for the ideal cab....Everything seems like you have to make more of a compromise than with basses and amps.

In my opinion, next to your bass, your speaker cabs are going to impart the most character on your signal chain. In that regard, I always suggest to players that they ignore the marketing and the hype that's out there and make an effort to play through as many different cabs as possible to find the one that works best for you. I've played through some fairly low end cabs that I thought sounded great and some pretty high end stuff that just wasn't my thing.

Regarding your comment about cost of cabs vs. the cost of basses, it's an interesting subject. In my experience, I'm constantly getting calls from players who tell me they are playing a Fodera, Sadowsky, Dingwall etc. and then proceed to try to get some kind of discount on my cabs, because they are "out of my price range". There's definitely a lot of players who don't think twice about dropping $6k on a bass, but would never even remotely consider spending that much on their amplification. There's a definite disconnect there and us manufacturers always have to weigh these things over when designing a cabinet. A great example of no holds barred design would certainly be the Warwick Hellborg rig. Amazing tone and absolutely no compromises, no corners cut, yet I doubt very many players shelled out the $6k or whatever it was, for one of these rigs.

When it comes to the construction of the cab, simply ensuring that nothing but the absolutely best quality parts are used, doesn't mean that cab is going to give you the tone you are after. I always stress tone before performance. I would never give up a seemingly low performance box that I love the sound of, for one that has amazing specs but doesn't quite give me the tone I'm after. I can usually work around performance issues. Maybe I have to play a bit quieter, or use multiple cabs, but nothing is going to help me if the inherent tone of the cab is one that I just don't like. Never let specs dictate your purchases. Always make it about the tone!

As far as us manufacturers go, speaker design is nothing but compromises. Obviously, if my goal is a 112 that fits in the $399 price range, that's going to dictate entirely different compromises than one that I want to sell for $899. If my goal is ultra portability, then compromises have to be made in other areas. When it comes to the aesthetics, there's just so much personal opinion out there that is really impossible to please everyone. If I use rat fur, then some guys won't buy it because they hate rat fur. If I go Tolex, there are guys who hate that as well. Poly coatings? Very expensive and adds weight. Some players like Duratex but it's not a coating I care for at all, so once again trade offs have to be made. Crossovers? Well, certainly the skies the limit here. Some boxes will have next to nothing under the hood, while other cabs like the MAS and AudioKenisis stuff take crossovers to a whole new level, but at a price. And does a "better" crossover automatically mean that the cabinet is going to achieve your personal tone goals?

 

[MultiScaleMale]

In my opinion, next to your bass, your speaker cabs are going to impart the most character on your signal chain. In that regard, I always suggest to players that they ignore the marketing and the hype that's out there and make an effort to play through as many different cabs as possible to find the one that works best for you. I've played through some fairly low end cabs that I thought sounded great and some pretty high end stuff that just wasn't my thing.

Regarding your comment about cost of cabs vs. the cost of basses, it's an interesting subject. In my experience, I'm constantly getting calls from players who tell me they are playing a Fodera, Sadowsky, Dingwall etc. and then proceed to try to get some kind of discount on my cabs. There's definitely a lot of players who don't think twice about dropping $6k on a bass, but would never even remotely consider spending that much on their amplification. There's a definite disconnect there and us manufacturers always have to weigh these things over when designing a cabinet. A great example of no holds barred design would certainly be the Warwick Hellborg rig. Amazing tone and absolutely no compromises, no corners cut, yet I doubt very many players shelled out the $6k or whatever it was, for one of these rigs.

When it comes to the construction of the cab, simply ensuring that nothing but the absolutely best quality parts are used, doesn't mean that cab is going to give you the tone you are after. I always stress tone before performance. I would never give up a seemingly low performance box that I love the sound of, for one that has amazing specs but doesn't quite give me the tone I'm after. I can usually work around performance issues. Maybe I have to play a bit quieter, or use multiple cabs, but nothing is going to help me if the inherent tone of the cab is one that I just don't like. Never let specs dictate your purchases. Always make it about the tone!

As far as us manufacturers go, speaker design is nothing but compromises. Obviously, if my goal is a 112 that fits in the $399 price range, that's going to dictate entirely different compromises than one that I want to sell for $899. If my goal is ultra portability, then compromises have to be made in other areas. When it comes to the aesthetics, there's just so much personal opinion out there that is really impossible to please everyone. If I use rat fur, then some guys won't buy it because they hate rat fur. If I go Tolex, there are guys who hate that as well. Poly coatings? Very expensive and adds weight. Some players like Duratex but it's not a coating I care for at all, so once again trade offs have to be made. Crossovers? Well, certainly the skies the limit here. Some boxes will have next to nothing under the hood, while other cabs like the MAS and AudioKenisis stuff take crossovers to a whole new level, but at a price. And does a "better" crossover automatically mean that the cabinet is going to achieve your tone goals?

It’s funny you mention cheap cabs and tone. We’re recordibg an EP and the studio had this old beat up Trace Elliott cab that you would find at Guitar Center for $59. That cab mic’ed up with my Ampeg PF-50t gave a phenomenal tone. U2 / Joshua Tree - esque. You never know what you’ll run into sometimes.

 

[alexclaber]

There are a few guys out there that do make great cabinets at reasonable prices. Most are made exceptionally well. None use a total volume formula that allows porting the cabinet so that the speakers physical movement is not restricted. This is the main problem that I hear in bass cabinets. Too much porting and the throw is loose, making the sound muddy. Too little porting and the return is restricted, which is the most common problem that I hear. Speakers always in“catch-up” mode, unable to fully return before launching out again to project (choked). Most people port by ear, some just copy existing designs, none use a formula that factors in the speakers design and physical movement with respect to the total volume of the cabinet. Get this right and you can truly hear the difference.

Hmmm... This post is simultaneously VERY wrong but also VERY right.

The terminology suggests a lack of understanding of how ported cabs actually work. As the chief engineer at Barefaced I can tell you that our speakers, enclosures, ports and so on are very precisely designed with plenty of science behind our decisions. And I'm sure most manufacturers use at least basic T/S theory to design their ported cabs (although that doesn't guarantee the optimal balance of compromises).

But I agree that if you put the work in to properly optimise a cab then it will perform far better!

 

[Jim C]

100% agree with Mr. Baer.
I would much prefer to play a gig with an SX or Squire P bass with a great amp (head and cabinet) than a great bass and a crummy amp.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I've done that comparison with guys many times. I'd have a Squire and a very nice NYC made bass. Through one cab that was a nice commercial cab and a cetain unnamed boutique cab. Everyone preferred the Squire through the boutique cab. The cabinet physically is the the most prominent part of the signal chain as far as moving the air that is the ultimate end of the signal chain---what you hear and feel. The cab is the physical air moving function. And Roger----I can't tell you how many times I've experienced the same thing.

 

[tbassist]

Check out Schroeder. I'm a happy Schroeder user. Light, and even has the truck liner thing. You'll probably want a couple of 1x12's

 

[Bass Dao]

I recently purchased two Genzler BA12-3 cabinets and could not be happier. They are 8 ohm cabs and sound amazing, and weigh about 34 lbs. each. I'm probably running on the order of 400W through each at any given time and I drive them with a GB Shuttle 9.0. I have used them both in a single and double cabinet configurations and can not be happier. They really cut through the live band sound and provide excellent lows, mids, and highs. I play in a popular tribute band for audiences ranging from 500-3000 people, in both inside and outside venues. The compliments I am getting from other musicians, many of whom are bassists, reinforces my view of the sound. They are not covered in truck liner (or rat fur), but the standard tolex-like cover is doing just fine, and adds very little weight. They do incorporate straps for carrying, but at 34 lbs, work just fine. I would highly recommend demo'ing them if you are able.

I tried these at NAMM a couple of years ago. Very nice cabs! The Magellan driving them was superb, as well.

A few year before though, I bought a G-B Streamliner 900 and GK Neo cabs (410, 115). There some slight difference with the advantage to the newer gear, but not enough to justify the losses I'll take in trading up.

Both sets of gear are reasonably priced, have decent weight specs, and are well-built. (I don't mind tolex, if it's done well. My Eden Ex-112 has rat fur and that doesn't bother me, either).

I play live for the most part. If I was to record I probably use the DI on the STM-900.

It seems to me that recording is where the sonic performance of the cab is more critical. That's why a decent DI is nice to have.

Cheers!

 

[tommy1710]

Schroeder cabs
Schroeder Cabinets
Own 2 cabinets 310L 900watts and a 12PL 800w and looking for the 3rd. Less than 38#

 

[David Jayne]

Have a Greenboy built and specify every single part right down to the screws.

Unless you're a speaker expert, this is the very definition of 'crapshoot.'

 

[Robert Bridgers]

With basses and even amps you can buy no holds barred, high end basses and amps that don’t cut any corners on quality or construction. But cabs always seem to be a compromise - heavy weight, rat fur or tolex, Duartex that’s gooped on, no t-bolts, cut corners on the crossover, etc. I guess the closest to a high end cab that I would consider “ideal” is the Greenboy F112, but I dislike the wedge format. It seems like everyone is trying to keep costs down on cabs where that’s not usually the case with basses. And you don’t hear a bass, you hear the notes from the speaker. I’ve found my ideal bass, but the quest continues for the ideal cab.

My definition of ideal is an 8 ohm cab that I can double up on larger gigs and use singly on smaller gigs. Sub 45lbs per cab (using the single weight plate standard), truck bed liner, handles 400-500W, quality construction, real handles - not the silly straps. Tone and low end extension, of course.

I considered Acme 112FR, but they have low sensitivity so you need to pump up the wattage and then I start to need a bigger amp. Dr Bass’ BL115 checks most of the boxes and I have an older RX series that I use for rehearsal and like. The obvious issue is - will I get the cabs.

Everything seems like you have to make more of a compromise than with basses and amps.

I have used 8-Ohm David Eden cabinets for a long time; they are heavy, but with the right transportation and moving equipment, any configuration is moveable. Don't go for the newer designs - most of it is bad. Old SWR 4x10 cabs are also good, as long as it is pre-Fender. Don't go for Neo-Dymium magnet cabs. I didn't even have to try one to know that they are bad. Best bass cab ever - Any size Mesa-Boogie voidless mahogany with David Eden driver.