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Do away with dogmatism

#81
Ignoring theoretical knowledge? No, I'm not arguing that. At all.

Instead, I'm trying to endeavour that we should all try to learn a bit more non-western theory, because I think it could help us with new ideas.

I've played classical music for more than half my life. I love western classical music. However, I'm also drawn to the more unconventional stuff, too. I just wish that I hadn't ended up in the deep end of non-traditional music without a map, and think that it might be profitable for musicians to be taught, say, microtonal music as well as traditional western.

As for my grammatical inclinations, that's a combination of my creative writing style, which makes heavy use of sentence fragments and the fact that I tend to transcribe my speech patterns- which, you might have guessed, make heavy use of pauses. While I'll accept that the use of pauses can be difficult to read when it gets excessive, I do think that the method in which you brought it up and the responses were unnecessary ad hominem.

Seriously, folks. I'm here to talk and make a case for something that is, surprise surprise, my opinion. I don't see the need for you to start ridiculing the way I write AND the way I speak because of that.
 
#83
Western music may not be microtonal, but it has only been codified by equal temperament since Rameau wrote his dogmatic treatise (sometime in the late 1700's I believe). Western musical history before that can take you into a pretty strange place of Well tempered or Just intonation. If you hear the music of our European ancestors for the first time, you might think you are hearing Eastern music.

The change is pretty dramatic, took a couple hundred years and was argued for and against just as passionately and stupidly as this thread for most of that time. And was just as largely ignored by the rest of the world.

The point being that you don’t have to go to China to step out of your musical world. There’s another world already inside the place where you live. But getting there requires some unlearning and some re-learning, or re-tuning.
 
#84
SpawnofHastur said:
Seriously, folks. I'm here to talk and make a case for something that is, surprise surprise, my opinion. I don't see the need for you to start ridiculing the way I write AND the way I speak because of that.
Click to expand...

Because on the Internet, everyone is willing to get straight to the point without ridiculing something.

Seriously, buddy. That's just how people are. If someone doesn't like the way you type, they're going to notice that and call you out on long before they even bother to understand your argument. That's just how it is.
 
#85
SpawnofHastur said:
Ignoring theoretical knowledge? No, I'm not arguing that. At all.

Instead, I'm trying to endeavour that we should all try to learn a bit more non-western theory, because I think it could help us with new ideas.

I've played classical music for more than half my life. I love western classical music. However, I'm also drawn to the more unconventional stuff, too. I just wish that I hadn't ended up in the deep end of non-traditional music without a map, and think that it might be profitable for musicians to be taught, say, microtonal music as well as traditional western.

As for my grammatical inclinations, that's a combination of my creative writing style, which makes heavy use of sentence fragments and the fact that I tend to transcribe my speech patterns- which, you might have guessed, make heavy use of pauses. While I'll accept that the use of pauses can be difficult to read when it gets excessive, I do think that the method in which you brought it up and the responses were unnecessary ad hominem.

Seriously, folks. I'm here to talk and make a case for something that is, surprise surprise, my opinion. I don't see the need for you to start ridiculing the way I write AND the way I speak because of that.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the internet, a slightly tougher room than a comedy club full of nuns.
 
#87
KPAX said:
You said stand on the shoulders of giants but you didn't you say teachable moment or paradigm shift. Why?
Click to expand...

Because I just didn't think of it. I meant to say music theory offers very helpful knowledge, because it enables us to use discoveries made by geniuses who lived before us. Only it should not hamper us to make new discoveries of our own.

And I do believe creativity is teachable; deployable at least. As is an attitude open to new paradigms.

In music theory, we should take the concept of 'new' into account. For example, Mozarts parralel 5ths once were a novelty, met with resistance, but got accepted. If you turn this argument upside down, it says: if you only apply theory, your music will soon be academic.

Or, to speak with Ed Fuqua: the line (the musician) will have to learn to adapt, to change, to create in order to gain and keep te love of the dot (the audience).
 
#93
Chris K said:
In music theory, we should take the concept of 'new' into account. For example, Mozarts parralel 5ths once were a novelty, met with resistance, but got accepted. If you turn this argument upside down, it says: if you only apply theory, your music will soon be academic.
Click to expand...

Can you expound on this "concept of new"?

I'm having trouble following how applying music theory is it's antithesis.

Also you said if we turn this argument upside down...

I don't see anything about an argument in your post so I'm having trouble identifying the antecedent.

What's really going on here? Did you get dumped by a music professor?
 
#95
mstott25 said:
Can you expound on this "concept of new"?
QUOTE]

There's no cntradiction between applying theory and exploring new territory. My point - that you would rather ignore perhaps - is that theory is constantly expanded on account of creativity. And is not meant to hamper creative play.

You know, the NEW stuff. Not the stuff you guys have been doing for the last 25 years.
Click to expand...
 
#96
I have a question CRISCO - how, precisely, does one play an electric instrument in "Unplugged bands & sessions..." ?

As for what I've been doing for the last 25 years, much is available for anyone to assess to see if it, and any information I put forth based on that experience, is of any value to them.

Given your insistence on railing against points no one has made (is that why you have to bring them up? Otherwise you don't have anything to say?) or your tendency to ignore points of view that don't reinforce your rather flat world view, it might well behoove you to give us some aural insight into your "creative play"...
 
#97
Ed, I listened to your recordings with pleasure and you play very well -and that's not even an admission. You DO play very well. Of course there is a 'but', merely having to do with taste, on which we better not argue.

As for my recordings: I have nothing satisfactory to show - satisfactory to myself that is. Cheap excuses like studio facilities etc. just don't count.
 
#98
So you are admitting that your outright refusal to tread anywhere but completely virgin musical territory (whatever the heck that may sound like) has thus far produced no satisfactory results? And yet you still feel compelled to criticize others for not doing the same?
 
#99
I never realized credentials were needed to express views on this forum - and I am certainly not going to let myself be forced into doing that. Everybody here is free to say what ever he has to say, without people doubting his or her playing abilities. If you read back carefully, you'll notice that's what I met with.

I never criticized anyone for showing or not showing their recordings. If you're proud, show'm off.
In the meantime, feel free to bash me if I try to show some modesty.
 

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