Do away with dogmatism

[uethanian]

I have to go with Pacman on this one.




Well to the best of my knowledge nobody said one needs to learn ONLY western music theory, but if your gonna play music based in western music theory it's a good idea to START WITH WESTERN MUSIC THEORY.

My point is this; say you're a businessman and you've got a meeting with the head of Sony. You spend a month preparing your presentation, buy a really nifty suit. You show up to the meeting and find the person you're meeting with only speaks Japanese, do you think your High School Spanish will help?

I know you want to a rebel and go against the "machine," but your point is nothing.

unfortunately the way most music education works is that they present you with a set of rules without justifying the reason behind it. like

Q: why are there twelve notes in the octave?
A: because when you add 12 5ths together, you reach the starting note.

which of course is not true, because no combination of pure fifths will get you back to that original pitch (nor will any combination of pure fifths give you a pure major/minor third). and anyone who wants to further their harmonic understanding of music later down the line has to effectively unlearn all these rules because they no longer apply.

in contrast, if we all started out learning a general harmonic theory, we could apply it to any kind of music, with full understanding of how that music works. so no, contrary to popular belief i believe it's a very bad idea to start out a musical education with a specific set of 'rules' in mind, particularly when a student is lacking in knowledge or is too young to understand those rules.

 

[Rudreax]

unfortunately the way most music education works is that they present you with a set of rules without justifying the reason behind it. like

Q: why are there twelve notes in the octave?
A: because when you add 12 5ths together, you reach the starting note.

which of course is not true, because no combination of pure fifths will get you back to that original pitch (nor will any combination of pure fifths give you a pure major/minor third). and anyone who wants to further their harmonic understanding of music later down the line has to effectively unlearn all these rules because they no longer apply.

in contrast, if we all started out learning a general harmonic theory, we could apply it to any kind of music, with full understanding of how that music works. so no, contrary to popular belief i believe it's a very bad idea to start out a musical education with a specific set of 'rules' in mind, particularly when a student is lacking in knowledge or is too young to understand those rules.

Yes, it would be nice if the entire world studied and played music the exact same way, wouldn't it?

 

[Stempelloos]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua
Yes you are absolutely correct, everything is exactly like everything else, except in the ways that they are different.

Sig-worthy!
__________________
genius = passion x work2

I just copied this:

"It reminds me of a theory of mine.
I call it "Spontaneous Similitude"
it goes something like this it goes:
"Everything is like something,"
"Anything like something else."
In technical terms,
I can express it algebraically:
A equals B U Beta"

My Theory of Simultaneous Similitude
By David Thomas & The Wooden Birds
From 'Monster walks the Winter Lake'

 

[SpawnofHastur]

I have no desire to 'fight the machine'. Me, all I want to do is play the music I enjoy, be that microtonal, western, or whatever.

If I want to play microtonal music, then I'll play microtonal music. And, hell. It might actually work somesuch in western music- Black Flag tried it, and it was cool.

I would not do it if the people I was playing with didn't want me too- but I'd love to have the option.

Oh, yes, too. Arabic music isn't actually harmonic at all- so starting with the rules of harmony wouldn't work too well.

 

[Michael Case]

unfortunately the way most music education works is that they present you with a set of rules without justifying the reason behind it. like

Q: why are there twelve notes in the octave?
A: because when you add 12 5ths together, you reach the starting note.

which of course is not true, because no combination of pure fifths will get you back to that original pitch (nor will any combination of pure fifths give you a pure major/minor third). and anyone who wants to further their harmonic understanding of music later down the line has to effectively unlearn all these rules because they no longer apply.

in contrast, if we all started out learning a general harmonic theory, we could apply it to any kind of music, with full understanding of how that music works. so no, contrary to popular belief i believe it's a very bad idea to start out a musical education with a specific set of 'rules' in mind, particularly when a student is lacking in knowledge or is too young to understand those rules.

Did you even read the post you quoted?

 

[Michael Case]

I have no desire to 'fight the machine'. Me, all I want to do is play the music I enjoy, be that microtonal, western, or whatever.

And nobody is stopping you.

If I want to play microtonal music, then I'll play microtonal music. And, hell. It might actually work somesuch in western music- Black Flag tried it, and it was cool.


I would not do it if the people I was playing with didn't want me too- but I'd love to have the option.

Then find those people and only play with them. I'm sure you'll find a great deal more fulfillment doing so.

Oh, yes, too. Arabic music isn't actually harmonic at all- so starting with the rules of harmony wouldn't work too well.

I really don't feel qualified to agree or disagree with this.

 

[mstott25]

I have no desire to 'fight the machine'.

...

And, hell.

...

It might actually work somesuch ...

Oh, yes, too.

Do you apply the same liberties to music as you do grammar?

 

[Michael Case]

Do you apply the same liberties to music as you do grammar?

Dude you're getting, all, dogmatic, and stuff, on. us,

 

[tranceFusion]

I have no desire to 'fight the machine'. Me, all I want to do is play the music I enjoy, be that microtonal, western, or whatever.

If I want to play microtonal music, then I'll play microtonal music. And, hell. It might actually work somesuch in western music- Black Flag tried it, and it was cool.

Aren't you trying to make a case for banishing theoretical labels? then why do you keep using them? Does Western music tell you that you can't play anything else?

There are some ridiculous people out there. I haven't seen a good excuse for ignoring theoretical knowledge other than laziness. Having a little bit of extra knowledge doesn't hurt, people. You can use it or ignore it as you wish..

 

[Michael Case]

Aren't you trying to make a case for banishing theoretical labels? then why do you keep using them? Does Western music tell you that you can't play anything else?

There are some ridiculous people out there. I haven't seen a good excuse for ignoring theoretical knowledge other than laziness. Having a little bit of extra knowledge doesn't hurt, people. You can use it or ignore it as you wish..

Don't you get IT! Music theory is designed by the imperialist capitalist system to keep us down. The sound of a major chord makes you give up your free will. The more you practice your arpeggios, the more you become a shill of the capitalist monster eating everything good and micro tonal.

 

[mstott25]

i h8 the fakt dat aiymu slaiyv to convenshunal spelling 2.

think of what shakespeare would have done without the constraints of the written word! microverbal hamlet free from dogma!

 

[Chris K]

I'll stick with cavat...

But only I YOU are to be the drop. Because, if you were to be the stone, you would prefer 'lavat', now wouldn't you?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Again you reduce the width and breadth of the universe to two choices....

 

[Chris K]

Again you reduce the width and breadth of the universe to two choices....

A little more absorption would not be a bad idea. And I thought I was a wiseguy...

 

[JimmyM]

This is a ridiculous thread because it automatically assumes that people who learn theory and the methodology of applying that theory have only one single approach to making music within a little tiny box from which there is no escape. It's a truly ridiculous premise. And arguing the other side is just as ridiculous because it assumes that you give that ridiculous premise even a tiny shred of credibility.

 

[Michael Case]

This is a ridiculous thread because it automatically assumes that people who learn theory and the methodology of applying that theory have only one single approach to making music within a little tiny box from which there is no escape. It's a truly ridiculous premise. And arguing the other side is just as ridiculous because it assumes that you give that ridiculous premise even a tiny shred of credibility.

But you have to admit, it sure is fun to watch and occasionally throw some gas on the fire. Talkbass has become kind of comedic.

 

[JimmyM]

But you have to admit, it sure is fun to watch and occasionally throw some gas on the fire. Talkbass has become kind of comedic.

Can't argue that.

 

[Chris K]

In today's paper, a famous classical piano player put it this way: In the first and in the last place music is entertainment, with capital E. You can treat it dogmatically (sic!), or make it sacrosanct, but in the end it's a night out for the audience. (...)
Some of the fun of that you might experoence, as a musician, if you dare to let go of things, to decide on them on the actual moment."

So let's have just that fun, guys!

 

[Chris K]

Talkbass has become kind of comedic.

And it's all your fault

 

[Ed Fuqua]

So let's have just that fun, guys!

Why assume otherwise?