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do cables make a difference in sound?

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#101
"First of, no cables you try in a store will ever sound 'right,' as they haven't been broken in yet."

True. A cable that is not broken in will not sound right. Some shops keep a selection of cables that are broken in, for people to try.

"So how exactly does that work, and why would you ever imagine that you need a 'tight seal' around the wire? Are you afraid the electrons are leaking out? Or rather, extra ones are somehow sneaking in (RF interference)? Something tells me that passing signal through a cable isn't going to significantly alter the atomic structure of the wire, so a bad wire should stay that way.

I don't know exactly how it works. Most likely, it keeps more RFI from sneaking in. But I am not a cable designer. Perhaps you should inquire of a cable manufacturer. Other parts, like capacitors and resistors need breaking in too. Here's one cable maker that explains things pretty well. www.latinternational.com (His instrument cable is WAY too expensive).

I CAN tell you that a broken in interconnect sounds much more transparent after break in than before. Same with most components, even inexpensive AV recievers. Some components, like Bryston amps, are 'burned in' at the factory'.

"But I guess I could be wrong, since all I have is common sense, and not scientific data or golden ears (or a better stereo)"

I'm afraid you are wrong. And you don't need 'golden ears'. I certainly don't have them. And all of this 'common sense' should tell you that eliminating distortion from an audio signal is a good thing.

If you ever have the opportunity to experiment with a decently resolving audio system, give it a try. Maybe you know someone who has one.

Until you do, your opinion is based only on your opinion.
 
#103
vespasian1 said:
If you ever have the opportunity to experiment with a decently resolving audio system, give it a try. Maybe you know someone who has one.

Until you do, your opinion is based only on your opinion.
Click to expand...

Even when you do, your opinion is only based on your opinion. Hearing a difference doesn't mean that difference exists in reality. Don't make the mistake of thinking personal experience counts for something when stacked against scientific reality. It may work great for you, just like believing lighting is sent from Zeus may work great for someone else, but it doesn't add up to anything when it comes to determining facts.
 
#105
Oh, Man! Just buy any quality cable on the shelf. I do have some monster in my HT set-up, but bought 'em on sale. For my guitars and basses, a mish-mash of decently made and priced cables with Planet Waves predominating. Construction is the key consideration, you want them to last. You don't want any colour in your cables.

Go to audioholics.com. They'll put you straight.
 
#108
vespasian1 said:
"Hearing a difference doesn't mean that difference exists in reality."

When you hear parts of the signal that were previously obscured, that's reality.
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It may be your personal version of reality, but that'd be it. A million people a day say their prayers are answered by their god. Another million say their prayers are answered by their DIFFERENT god. At least half of them are wrong, but it is as true a "reality" to them as your experiences are to you. If what you're hearing is real, then it can be scientifically verified.

And I'm not seeing any "scientific reality", or data, that proves my non-golden ears wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually there has been. Look up some of the testings/writings of Floyd Toole. Also, it's your job to prove you're RIGHT, not the job of others to prove you're wrong.
 
#110
I have done AB tests, involving music that I was very familiar with. I've done a lot of it. This stuff I'm talking about isn't hard to hear folks. Please feel free to try before you make up your mind.

I'm not an 'audiophile' by any means, but the battle cry of the audiophile commmunity is "Trust your ears!". So trust your ears.

Hey guys, I'm still waitng for that scientific data that proves an Alembic sounds better than a SX. :D

"Actually there has been. Look up some of the testings/writings of Floyd Toole. Also, it's your job to prove you're RIGHT, not the job of others to prove you're wrong."

Feel free to visit your public library and look at some back issues of Stereophile Magazine. They have all the charts, and graphs, and scientific/engineering lingo you will need, I'm sure.

And it's not up to me to prove anything, especially since I see a lack of willingness on the part of any detractors here to at least give this a try. Innocent until proven guilty, no?

As I said, try it, you'll like it.

Over and out.
 
#112
Zureta said:
This thread is starting to remind me of this:

Coat hangers vs. Monster Cable (a very non-scientific study)

I'm telling you guys, this kind of discussion about subjective sound quality has happened many, many times before, and it never goes anywhere useful.

It always ends up getting very angry and personal, with the "golden-eared snobs" pointing fingers at the "cloth-eared gits" that can't even tell the difference between obviously good sound and bad, and the "cloth-eared gits" saying that the "golden-eared snobs" are dupes for scams and nonsense because the difference is all in the head and they simply want to believe.

Is it all worth the anger and unpleasantness? :eyebrow:
Click to expand...

No... Wire... Hangers... EVER!!!!!! :hiding:

(I looked for a giff, but couldn't find one)
 
#113
I used to work at an audio store. I wired up 2 systems that were identical except for the wiring. One system had some 18 ga zip cord for speaker wire and the inter connects that are similar to what radio shack sells. The other system had the high end wiring (including the AC cable). No one could ever tell the difference. After the initial test, I told them which system had the more expensive cable....... then, somehow, they could tell a difference. Except when I lied and said the cheap wiring was the expensive stuff, then that system sounded better. So.... whichever one I said sounded better, appeared to sound better. My recommendation? Don't believe anything a stereo salesman tells you.
 
#114
vespasian1 said:
Arguing with people who have no practical experience, and don't know what they're talking about is an empty pursuit. It's like running in the Special Olympics. You might win the race, but you're still ********. :smug:

PS- Cables and other electronic components need about a hundred hours of break-in before they begin to sound like they are supposed to sound. This break-in is required for the dielectric (usually teflon) to form a tight seal around conductors.
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Stop it, man; you're killing me! :D

You have defined "people who don't know what they are talking about" to be the same set as "people who disagree with vespasian1". That's very convenient; win a lot of arguments that way, do you?

Listen up: Again, no one here is telling you that you don't hear a difference. You obviously do, and that's fine; spend your money however you want. Whether that difference is "real" is of no consequence whatsoever; hearing is subjective.

What has been shown by numerous double blind surveys is that there is a bias toward hearing an improvement in sound by someone who has invested monetarily in that improvement whether anyone else can hear it or not.

Just as I cannot prove that you don't hear a difference, you cannot prove that anyone else would hear it. Blustering, name-calling, and demeaning folks the who don't share your views does not lend any credence to what you are saying.
 
#116
vespasian1 said:
I have done AB tests, involving music that I was very familiar with. I've done a lot of it. This stuff I'm talking about isn't hard to hear folks. Please feel free to try before you make up your mind.
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Were those AB tests double blind with impartial judging and a statistically significant sample size? If you knew which cable (or whatever) was which when you performed your tests, then the results don't mean squat. Anecdotal evidence, no matter how emphatically presented, does not prove anything.

The root of this argument is (as it always is) subjectivity vs. objectivity. When you are speaking of subjective differences, "I hear it" is good enough. Go forth and spend your money however you want. If you want to prove an objective difference, however, then "I hear it" is a non sequitur. It's neither right nor wrong; it's irrelevant.
 
#117
"You have defined "people who don't know what they are talking about" to be the same set as "people who disagree with vespasian1"

BS. I'm not the one who started this thing by calling people 'Kool Aid Drinkers'. Pay attention.

So, how much blind testing do you all need to do to tell you one bass, or one amp sounds better than another? What scientific data is there? What's that you say? Relying on your ears, are ya?

I can't imagine such a thing. It's sooo unscientific.

I can't speak to what happened in an audio store. I can speak for what happens when you listen to equipment and music you are familiar with. And though I've never tried it myself, twisted pairs of zip-wire are reputed to make for a very nice, transparent speaker cable. I never said cables need to be expensive.
 
#118
vespasian1 said:
So, how much blind testing do you all need to do to tell you one bass, or one amp sounds better than another? What scientific data is there? What's that you say? Relying on your ears, are ya?

I can't imagine such a thing. It's sooo unscientific.
Click to expand...

No one said you shouldn't get what sounds best to you. Thing is, you can also easily prove that most basses and amps sound different from each other in double blind tests and graphing.

I can't speak to what happened in an audio store. I can speak for what happens when you listen to equipment and music you are familiar with. And I never said cables need to be expensive.

If ignorance is bliss, some of you must be very happy people.
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No one is ignoring or denying the fact that you hear a difference. You do seem to be ignoring the fact that the difference you hear may not be real. Something doesn't have to be real to make you happy. You just have to watch out for it when you start stating it as fact.
 
#120
guizzy said:
Big can of worm you're opening here.

This applies to A/V cable, instrument cables and (doubly so) for digital cable. I have NEVER ever heard of or seen adquate scientific proof that any cable carries sound better than any other fit-for-purpose cable.

However, I've heard it said that the only reason these are marketed for bass is because they are NOT transparent (as good cable should be). If you want to buy Monster Cable, I'd suggest going for general purpose instrument cable and not this.

There are other good reasons to choose one kind of cable over another: length, reliability, stiffness, fit of the connectors... Not having to worry about your cable is a good perk. Monster Cable's lifetime warranty is a good plus in that regard.


Of course, there are hundreds, musicians and (more often) audiophiles who drank the marketing Kool-Aid who'll claim that some cable has magical tone improving capacities, and that "they can totally hear it being better". Before you start wasting your money on that kind of stuff, ask yourself: "Can this be proven NOT to be the listener's bias?" In my experience, it never can.
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well put sir. i would also like to add that i bought a two pack of 20' cables for $11.99 and i can't tell the difference. and when your on the road and a cable goes out you can't afford a fifty dollar cable, or the time it would take to get a replacement, so cheap works.

Side not: most metals will carry an electrical signal, copper does it best so any cable with copper wire will do fine.
 
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