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do cables make a difference in sound?

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#81
ggunn said:
If you hear a difference, then it's real to you, and whether anyone else hears it is irrelevant. You can't prove that it's real, I can't prove that it's not real (a negative is impossible to prove), and there are folks in the audio biz that make tons of money on that very ambiguity. Give yours to them if you want; it's no skin off my nose.
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My point exactly! You could end the thread right here, before the namecalling gets any uglier, and it probably would be just as constructive and educational as letting it go on and on.

For more "die-hard skeptic against the forces of unscientific though" shenanigans, you might enjoy the writings of aussie gear reviewer extraordinaire Daniel Rutter. I know I always find his stuff amusing. :D
 
#83
Really, all that matters is durability. Any "tone" a cable imparts will be minute and lost in the EQing anyways.

The idea that a power cable affects the sound is ridiculous. It goes to a transformer anyways, and like said before, your houses wiring probably sucks. AC cables should be no more than $20 IMO.

Invalid Link Removed is insane, stopping the cables from resonating...

Haha, funny graphs and charts.

This guy really says it.
 
#84
Ok, here's my .02... I have played lots and lots of cables over the last 30 years. I replaced each and every one when the needed to be replaced, and not before. Some fell apart on their own, some from road use and abuse. 5 or 6 years ago I got talked into a Montster cable. It sounds every bit as good as any other cable I've ever had. No magic improvement or lack of hard practice happens because that's what I use to connect to my amp. If you run "Magic" Monster cable to your pedals, then $2 patches between them, what difference does the "Magic" cable make??? NONE. It's a cable, not a secret transcendental journey that a coven of witches had to pray over to keep you from sounding like the magic flute in H.R. Puffenstuff... C'mon Jimmy....Just Play. I hate cables and play wireless whenever I can, but there's a practicality issue. You just HAVE to have cable. When this one breaks, which it hasn't yet (that's a pretty strong testimonial to the construction of it there,) I may try something else. After all, it's only a cable.
 
#85
vespasian1 said:
"You don't WANT to have scientific data. It might controvert your superstitious preconceived notions.'

OK, since you seem to know all about it, show me some data that proves me wrong.

BS. No pre-conceived notions involved. When I bought my first pair of decent cables, I didn' expect to hear any appreciabe difference. I did. I was surprised.

But, since you seem to know all about it, show me some data that proves me wrong.

It is not necessary to rewire your whole house either. Where do you get your info? I get mine from many years of first hand experience, and several expensive mistakes, because I didn't have know-it-alls with little or no experience (Ahem) to advise me.

The wiring in your house contains all kinds of electronic garbage. A decent power cord, especially when coupled with a decent power conditioner, will filter out a great deal of it.

I auditioned Paradigms, and rejected them due to lack of transparency.

My system consits of:

B&W Nautilus 804 speakers.
Bryston 3B SSt Amp.
Sony XA 777 ES CD/SACD player
Rogue Audio 66 Magnum Tube Pre Amp
Velodine VA 12/15 MK II Subwoofer

When you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk.

I do agree that components are most important. But if your cables don't have sufficient transparency, you will lose a lot of the music.

And I'd rather listen to "half an oboe", than half an ass. Whoever made that comment is obviously more interested in hearing himself talk, than he is about learning anything. It's a shame, because he obvioulsy knows nothing about the subject.

Jackass.
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Jackass? Well, I guess that proves your point. You could drive it all the way home if you could direct me to the results of the double-blind tests you ran to arrive at your conclusions.

By the way, I was teaching electronics before you were born.

Oh yeah, and I have over 18,000 posts. You have only 140. So who do you think knows what he's talking about?
 
#87
hellboy said:
Cables can make a difference, but for instrument cables the only thing that really affects the sound is the capacitance/foot - the cable acts as a lowpass filter, and the higher the capacitance (and the longer the cable), the more treble gets lost on the way to the amp. Low capacitance cables do not necessarily cost more, and may or may not be desirable - some people prefer the "traditional" sound and find low capacitance cables "harsh", and with a bass you may not even notice the difference. What's more, if you have an active bass, the low impedance output means the cable has practically no effect.

Other factors, like the outside wrap, connector type, look, and so on, are pretty subjective. Obviously construction can affect durability, and that may be more of a factor in your buying decision.
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First time I've heard this explained in a clear scientific manner
 
#92
"I guess the cables just magically adapt to whatever CD you're listening to and add back in whatever frequencies were lost in the original recording"

High end equipment and better cables don't add anything back in. The music obviously has to be present in the recording in the first place. Cheap cables allow RFI into the signal, the distortion from which masks detail, whether you 'buy' it or not. Better components with better parts eliminate vibration and RFI.

If you need scientific data to tell you what you are hearing, that is unfortunate. However Stereophile Magazine provides such data when they conduct tests of cables and equipment. Blind testing is often involved. And while you're hunting for this scientific data, perhaps you can find some that proves an Alembic sounds better than a SX.

One question- Have any of you 'IPod Dock' audio experts ever sat down in front of a high-end system and actually TRIED different cables? No? Then I rest my case.

Arguing with people who have no practical experience, and don't know what they're talking about is an empty pursuit. It's like running in the Special Olympics. You might win the race, but you're still ********. :smug:

PS- Cables and other electronic components need about a hundred hours of break-in before they begin to sound like they are supposed to sound. This break-in is required for the dielectric (usually teflon) to form a tight seal around conductors.
 
#95
'Scientific data' aside (and it does exist), it's really just common sense.

The more interference and distortion you remove from the path of a line-level audio signal, the more of that signal will get through unmolested. So more of the recording, or whatever other source, will be heard more clearly, and with more detail revealed.

Some may want to Google 'signal to noise ratio'. That's a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal-to-noise_ratio
 
#96
vespasian1 said:
'Scientific data' aside, it's really just common sense.

The more interference and distortion you remove from the path of a line-level audio signal, the more of that signal will get through unmolested. So more of the recording, or whatever other source, will be heard more clearly, and with more detail revealed.
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Including details that cannot be heard on the clearly inferior systems in the studio?















:hiding:
 
#97
After seeing dirty marketing tricks like this:
http://techgage.com/news/retailer_compares_monster_hdmi_to_composite
I really wouldn't waste my money (esp to monster) on so called higher quality cable.

I wonder how many people got suckered into that one. Anyway, AFAIK with digital a/v connections like HDMI, as long as the signal gets from one end to the other without loss, it doesn't matter if you spend £5 or £50.

It's just like the old gold plated connector chestnut. For a start you'll only get a marginal, if noticeable difference if the socket is gold plated too. Secondly, the gold plating will wear off after plugging in and out a few times anyway.

A side not really related OT note. I remember taking the Pepsi Challenge in my youth a few of times. I picked Pepsi every time. The rep asked how I could tell. I told her I preferred the other one.
 
#98
"Including details that cannot be heard on the clearly inferior systems in the studio?"

Who said that studio systems are inferior?

Of course these systems "hear" these signals, because they are reproduced in the recording. If the medium you are using to play back the recording is subject to interference and distortion (and they all are), some portion of that signal will be veiled, or completely obscured by that distortion.

"as long as the signal gets from one end to the other without loss, it doesn't matter if you spend £5 or £50."

There's the rub. It's all about preventing loss of signal. There are some bargain high end components and cables that do a good job of it. Creek comes to mind. So does Rotel, and Cambridge Audio. For more expensive stuff, go used. You'll save a fortune.

I've bought really inexpensive, homemade cables and power cords from a guy who sells them on www.Audiogon.com, that did a great job. He uses good wire, with good insulation and shielding, and good connectors. And, he has no overhead. http://www.signalcable.com/

You don't have to spend a million dollars to get good sound. You just need to get rid of some of the electronic garbage in the signal.
 
#99
vespasian1 said:
PS- Cables and other electronic components need about a hundred hours of break-in before they begin to sound like they are supposed to sound. This break-in is required for the dielectric (usually teflon) to form a tight seal around conductors.
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That doesn't even make sense.
First of, no cables you try in a store will ever sound 'right,' as they haven't been broken in yet.

Also, what exactly is the insulator (dielectric) doing to 'tighten' it's grip on the wire (and how does this make an appreciable audible difference?) The melting point of Teflon is 327 °C, so it can't be a thermal tightening (ala heat shrink).

So how exactly does that work, and why would you ever imagine that you need a 'tight seal' around the wire? Are you afraid the electrons are leaking out? Or rather, extra ones are somehow sneaking in (RF interference)? Something tells me that passing signal through a cable isn't going to significantly alter the atomic structure of the wire, so a bad wire should stay that way.

But I guess I could be wrong, since all I have is common sense, and not scientific data or golden ears (or a better stereo) :o :hiding:
 
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