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Do my eyes deceive me?!?!? Brubaker Brute in SINGLECUT??

i also did a search and found numerous sites that list these woods . it is available in Red Nyatoh or what they call White Nyatoh here is a pic of the white. the second pic is brute bodies at the factory in china
i also looked up wood weights and density basswood is 27lbs/ft3 with a gravity of .32 as where nyatoh is 41lbs/ft3 with a gravity of .55 . all you will have to do is go pick up a comparable bass made of basswood that is the same basic size and compare it . the proof will be in the weight
 
Be it nyatoh, nato or basswood the Brutes are winners in my book in sound and in price. I finally saw a pic of proto the Brute SC-5. I think one in black with a maple fingerboard will look awesome. so would a white painted body.
 
Be it nyatoh, nato or basswood the Brutes are winners in my book in sound and in price.

I personally agree with you, but I don't find myself able to tell the difference between the sounds of woods (based on the clips posted on this forum). In that, I actually find it a tad unfortunate that the price of the Brute doesn't justify using a "non-budget" wood, just on principle. There are enough people who seem to be prejudiced in this that it could make a difference in sales.

Whether nato or basswood, I have seen no suggestion that these are selected in bass building for tonal properties. It doesn't make much sense, to me, to be happy or somehow proud because a bass is made of nato instead of basswood.They are both selected primarily for their low cost. From what I can see, nato use in electric basses is largely limited to a small number of no-name, bottom-of-the-barrel models and the Ibanez Gio. Basswood is similarly used mostly in low-end basses and some nominal mid-range basses. Squire, Epiphone and other offshore builds manage to use maple, ash and alder in some models, even sub-$300 models.
 
i also did a search and found numerous sites that list these woods . it is available in Red Nyatoh or what they call White Nyatoh here is a pic of the white. the second pic is brute bodies at the factory in china
i also looked up wood weights and density basswood is 27lbs/ft3 with a gravity of .32 as where nyatoh is 41lbs/ft3 with a gravity of .55 . all you will have to do is go pick up a comparable bass made of basswood that is the same basic size and compare it . the proof will be in the weight

I have two ash basses that feel at least a very subjective (I'm not a human scale) 2 lbs different from one another. I had a basswood Squier and it didn't seem remarkably light or substantially different in weight from my Brute. I think they're both just shy of 10 lbs. Point is, I simply don't claim to have the discernment of the weights of different basses to judge different types of body woods.

What I do know is that I haven't seen any information on nato wood supports that it is what my Brute is made from, based on what I can observe. A single picture labeled "Nyatoh Laminated Board for Electric Guitar / Electric Bass manufactures" doesn't change the fact that not a single picture or description of nato wood matches the appearance of my bass. Nor do I find anything persuasively suggesting that nato and nyatoh are the same thing. I don't deny that these things are possibly the case, I just don't see much of any supporting evidence for them.

Frankly, the way that Kevin answered me left me with a question mark...that's just me.
 
We also have to consider the fact that Kevin Brubaker a well respected Boutique Luthier put his names on these instruments. I'm sure before he gave the go-ahead to manufacture these basses he checked them for a "standard". I don't believe he would put his name on just anything. The thing for me is nothing else IMO sounds like a brute. When I slap the E string the note explodes with a great big POW, unlike any other bass I've played. I'm partial to the Jazz Bass slap sound and I'm very happy with the Brutes Slap sound, which is what I bought it for to slap the hell out of it. I personally like the way the brute sounds better than any bass I've owned made out of basswood or alder or poplar. I have an SX jazz that sounds awesome but it's made of ash and it's very heavy. If the factory made these basses out of a better quality wood then maybe the price would be higher. It's not like he has the buying power of let's say a Fender and can get a better price due to the sheer number of instruments ordered. For example soft maple would be an excellent wood for the Brutes but what would be the cost for a guy like Kevin. On the other hand the Squire VM 70's series Jazz is made of soft maple and sells for about $250.00 lessthan a Brute. I think it's economies of scale. Great topic for discussion though.
 
I personally like the way the brute sounds better than any bass I've owned made out of basswood or alder or poplar.

There are clearly a number of people who don't particularly care what the wood is. You're one of those people. I happen to be one of those people. From my own observations, I feel well satisfied that I am not able to discern the difference and identify a preference between the sound of basses owing to the wood used...or whether it's even made of wood.

To me, the Brute sounds good, feels good and it's reasonably aesthetically pleasing, if somewhat bland, in a natural finish.

All that being said, there are what could be a meaningful number of people who feel confident that they can easily tell the difference between the sounds of various woods and who exclude certain woods from consideration because of their inferior sound.

I understand the idea of economies of scale, but it seems likely to me that a change to a non-stigma carrying wood would change the price, but not the price range. Again, I'm just speculating, but if more basses could be sold at $20 or $30 more, that would create a better overall picture.

I only have one cost comparison, but from one vendor I looked at, the cost of ash and maple are the same, while basswood is 25% less. Yes, 25% is significant, but at the prices I saw, if the portion of a bass due to a basswood body was $35.00, ash or maple would be approximately $13.50 higher.
 
There are clearly a number of people who don't particularly care what the wood is. You're one of those people. I happen to be one of those people. From my own observations, I feel well satisfied that I am not able to discern the difference and identify a preference between the sound of basses owing to the wood used...or whether it's even made of wood.

To me, the Brute sounds good, feels good and it's reasonably aesthetically pleasing, if somewhat bland, in a natural finish.

All that being said, there are what could be a meaningful number of people who feel confident that they can easily tell the difference between the sounds of various woods and who exclude certain woods from consideration because of their inferior sound.

I understand the idea of economies of scale, but it seems likely to me that a change to a non-stigma carrying wood would change the price, but not the price range. Again, I'm just speculating, but if more basses could be sold at $20 or $30 more, that would create a better overall picture.

I only have one cost comparison, but from one vendor I looked at, the cost of ash and maple are the same, while basswood is 25% less. Yes, 25% is significant, but at the prices I saw, if the portion of a bass due to a basswood body was $35.00, ash or maple would be approximately $13.50 higher.

You also need to consider the machining of the materials.
As far as I'm aware basswood is a lot softer than ash or maple, or most other choice "tone woods", so all the CNC tools won't wear as quickly doing much longer runs in between servicing and eventually repairing or replacing them.
Also, basswood is easier to finish than these "preferred" woods, as it's tightly grained and has little to no figuring.

I'm fairly sure, the material cost alone isn't the only contributing factor.

Having said all that, I know folks who like the sound of basswood, personally, it wouldn't put me off, I've played plenty of basses with basswood or other unspecified weird woods which have sounded just fine.

My 2p,
Eude
 
You also need to consider the machining of the materials.
As far as I'm aware basswood is a lot softer than ash or maple, or most other choice "tone woods", so all the CNC tools won't wear as quickly doing much longer runs in between servicing and eventually repairing or replacing them.
Also, basswood is easier to finish than these "preferred" woods, as it's tightly grained and has little to no figuring.

I'm fairly sure, the material cost alone isn't the only contributing factor.

Having said all that, I know folks who like the sound of basswood, personally, it wouldn't put me off, I've played plenty of basses with basswood or other unspecified weird woods which have sounded just fine.

My 2p,
Eude

I'd imagine the cost is not be the sole selection criterion, but it is probably the primary criterion by a wide margin.

While lower machining cost could be a consideration with basswood, that wouldn't necessarily be the case with nato, which the Brute is supposed to be made from, and certainly not with nyatoh, which has been suggested is being referred to as "nato," in the case of the Brute.

My point, admittedly made in a very speculative, armchair way, is that you and I would still buy the Brute if it were made of ash or maple and so might those would who eliminate "lesser woods" from consideration.
 
I’m another who couldn’t care less what the wood is. The only thing that would turn me off from this is weight.

My main gigging basses are 10 lbs and 10-3/4 lbs, and I’m seriously tiring of the weight.

I’m getting a lighter bass, in fact, one will be here today, but I’m not sure if I’m going to like it (for other reasons). In any case, I just can’t see buying another bass that weighs even close to what I've been dealing with.
 
I’m another who couldn’t care less what the wood is. The only thing that would turn me off from this is weight.

My main gigging basses are 10 lbs and 10-3/4 lbs, and I’m seriously tiring of the weight.

I’m getting a lighter bass, in fact, one will be here today, but I’m not sure if I’m going to like it. In any case, I just can’t see buying another bass that weighs even close to what I've been dealing with.

The Brute isn't heavy, but it's not featherweight. I think mine is about 9.5 (I've only ever done the highly inaccurate bathroom scale thing with my basses).

My ash 55-01 feels lighter. I've seen them listed at 8.5 to 9.5 lbs. I think I got a particularly light one. I think my 55-02 (also ash) is close to 11 lbs.
 
This os a good thread. I once had a yamaha RBX 170 made out of Agathis. It was areally inexpensive bass but I loved playing becaise it was so darn light. I went to an open Mike and my friend had a Walter Woods head and a SWR Goilaith II I believe and the yamaha was kicking. IMO putiing your money where you mouth is, is more related to the quality of your amplification and bass cab than the wood of the bass. Kevin Brubaker is going to push more strongly his KXB Standard series which will be made in his shop from soft maple with the same pre and pickups that go in his custom and extreme basses. Malcom Hall demos one on youtube and it sounds great. It's video #82. I plan on getting one just like it in 2012. The cost would be around $2300 to $2500. This way I can get into a higher end brubaker without having to pay the custom or exterme prices 4K and more. I'm also planning on getting Brute Single Cut when they come out. No pricing info just yet.
 
I personally agree with you, but I don't find myself able to tell the difference between the sounds of woods (based on the clips posted on this forum). In that, I actually find it a tad unfortunate that the price of the Brute doesn't justify using a "non-budget" wood, just on principle. There are enough people who seem to be prejudiced in this that it could make a difference in sales.

Whether nato or basswood, I have seen no suggestion that these are selected in bass building for tonal properties. It doesn't make much sense, to me, to be happy or somehow proud because a bass is made of nato instead of basswood.They are both selected primarily for their low cost. From what I can see, nato use in electric basses is largely limited to a small number of no-name, bottom-of-the-barrel models and the Ibanez Gio. Basswood is similarly used mostly in low-end basses and some nominal mid-range basses. Squire, Epiphone and other offshore builds manage to use maple, ash and alder in some models, even sub-$300 models.

Great to see the discussion on these basses.

I have no doubt that that there are some people who will exclude a bass because of it's body wood. As someone firmly entrenched in the "wood matters" camp, that still wouldn't make me not consider something simply because of it's body wood. Frankly I don't find that to be at all warranted. I think that's a pretty polite way of putting it.
:D

If someone really has a hangup about body wood, be it Nato, Basswood, whatever, they should probably not buy a Brute or any other bass with that wood. That bias won't be based on experiencing "that" wood on a Brute so again, I wouldn't find it warranted. That IMO is their loss. Youcan't please everybody.

As far as why the wood(s) used on the Brutes was selected, it was simple. I've been involved with this since it's inception and the wood that was finally used was selected based on a long prototyping process, the original hand built by Kevin, the final version selected based on what he received back from the factory. If the wood didn't impress us as it did, it simply wouldn't have been used. So the primary reason for wood choice on the Brutes was not price because as you already appear to know, the quantity of wood used on the bass wouldn't have cost much either way, it was sound and the next consideration was weight and balance. So this is no suggestion, it's why the woods were selected.
;)

If we could've achieved the tone we wanted with a 5 lb. bass that wood would've been what was used. What was arrived at was a bass that we felt was not heavy, that sounded agressive, sustained and played like something Kevin would put his name on. It had to represent what Brubakers are about, at a more affordable price.

Unfortunately there has been so much confusion about the woods at this point I'm not even sure what wood was used. Early on I was told it was Nato, which supposedly was similar in appearance to Maple. The Brutes exhibited tonal qualities similar to what I've expereinced with some Maple Brubakers so it made sense. I'm pretty sure Ash wasn't on the table because of how many people have issues with weight with the type of Ash that works best with Brubakers. Light Ash wasn't an option due to tonal reasons. I'm happy witht he wood, whatever it may happen to be, that was ultimately selected. The same process is in place for the singlecut... woods will be prototyped and that which meets the sonic goals, with weight as a consideration, will likely be what's chosen. Kevin's not going to come up short on that end to try to save relatively little money in the build process. It makes no sense especially if you have any pride in what you offer.

I personally don't have a problem with whatever woods were used as long as they were acquired responsibly and in good supply. I know this post doesn't clear up the wood mystery, we can only go by what we were told short of sending a bass into a lab for analysis. Still pretty confident that for most potential customers the results are what really matters.
:cool:
 
I'd imagine the cost is not be the sole selection criterion, but it is probably the primary criterion by a wide margin.

Again, nope. Not even close.

While lower machining cost could be a consideration with basswood, that wouldn't necessarily be the case with nato, which the Brute is supposed to be made from, and certainly not with nyatoh, which has been suggested is being referred to as "nato," in the case of the Brute.

My point, admittedly made in a very speculative, armchair way, is that you and I would still buy the Brute if it were made of ash or maple and so might those would who eliminate "lesser woods" from consideration.

I'm pretty sure Mike Tobias has made US basses with basswood. He did it for tone so while I've no doubt people consider some woods to be "lesser" I'd agree with Mike... they're just "different" and if you get what you're after tonally, they're perfect.
:D
 
So the primary reason for wood choice on the Brutes was not price because as you already appear to know, the quantity of wood used on the bass wouldn't have cost much either way, it was sound and the next consideration was weight and balance. So this is no suggestion, it's why the woods were selected.

Thanks for the interesting insights. Naturally, without good inside stuff like that, we're left to some amount of speculation.

Since this doesn't really clear up what the Brute is made from some of the points are less than fully resolved, IMO. Some feel nato is settled...I personally have a nagging suspicion it's basswood. There are logical distictions that follow from which one it is.

It is a fact that basswood and nato are lower cost woods that are commonly used (cost driven) as substitutes for higher cost woods that have similar properties. It is also true that because something is commonly done for a particular reason does not mean that it is always or only done for that reason.

With regard to basswood, there are surely examples of higher priced basses and guitars made from it to meet certain tonal and weight goals. In the case of basswood, specifically, and higher priced basses and guitars, there's obviously no good case for assuming a cost motive. However, where there is an explicit effort to produce a lower priced model, it's not unreasonable to assume cost as a significant criterion in the selection of the wood, especially where a maker uniformly uses higher cost woods in all of their other models, which are all higher priced, including the model that is the design basis for the lower cost model.

With regard to nato, I don't believe there are any other examples of it being selected for other than cost goals. It doesn't appear to have a weight benefit, so that doesn't fit this scenario.

If the Brute is, in fact, basswood, from what you're saying, it's another example of selection for reasons other than cost are indicated. This time, coincidentally, in a model built to offer a lower priced option. If it's made from nato, then it could be the lone example of selection of nato for reasons other than cost, which I'd personally find a little hard to swallow.
 
Okay. In summation: if it didn't hit the target sound, it would not be used. That is why it was chosen. And I understand that whatever the wood turns out to be could make someone look elsewhere and I'm pretty sure that would be their loss. There are no wood options at this price point, the bass is what it is... whatever it is;)

:cool:

BTW Nato does have a weight benefit... it's definitely not as heavy as my Northern Ash basses. That does fit this scenario.
:D
 
Okay. In summation: if it didn't hit the target sound, it would not be used. That is why it was chosen. And I understand that whatever the wood turns out to be could make someone look elsewhere and I'm pretty sure that would be their loss. There are no wood options at this price point, the bass is what it is... whatever it is;)

:cool:

BTW Nato does have a weight benefit... it's definitely not as heavy as my Northern Ash basses. That does fit this scenario.
:D

I dont care if it's made out of freakin BALSA as long as it sounds like my last Brute sounded. I can't wait to get my hands on a Brute SC.... I'd like to see how MY IDEA panned out......

:D :hiding: