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Do solid body basses losen up?
- Thread starter 5string5fingers
- Start date
IMHO you simply cannot compare electric instruments with acoustic instruments, or instruments like stand up or double basses which are built similar to an acoustic instrument.
The acoustic instruments are only finished on one side of the wood. Most of the interior of the wood is unfinished, and can and does continue to lose moisture and season with age. The solidbody electric is completely encased in finish. It may eventually "season" and change, but it'll take decades. Again, IMHO. There is also the fact that even the notion of this type of change in the tone of acoustic instruments is highly debated in the acoustic instrument communities.
Also, i think a lot of the difference in tone(if any is observed) between new and older solidbody instruments is due to the aging of the electronics, corrosion of the wiring, weakening of the magnets on the pickups, aging of the capacitors, etc.
Again, MHO, but there's a lot more to an electric bass than just the wood it's made from.
The acoustic instruments are only finished on one side of the wood. Most of the interior of the wood is unfinished, and can and does continue to lose moisture and season with age. The solidbody electric is completely encased in finish. It may eventually "season" and change, but it'll take decades. Again, IMHO. There is also the fact that even the notion of this type of change in the tone of acoustic instruments is highly debated in the acoustic instrument communities.
Also, i think a lot of the difference in tone(if any is observed) between new and older solidbody instruments is due to the aging of the electronics, corrosion of the wiring, weakening of the magnets on the pickups, aging of the capacitors, etc.
Again, MHO, but there's a lot more to an electric bass than just the wood it's made from.
I agree with you there 100%.... changes in the near term are definitely real with a DB or similar instrument with humidity, etc. With an EB, as also stated above, quite a different thing with a slab of solid wood and lots of electronics and frets, etc.
I was more talking 'over a long period of time'. The reason I find this suspect, even with pure acoustic instruments, is that I never hear anyone post of say:
'man this bass has gotten worse over time'... never even once
The probability of aging wood ALWAYS resulting in a better tone is IMO pretty remote. This suggest a bit of wishful thinking.However... I have not more 'proof' than anyone else, but enjoy the topic.
Go over to the DB side and try your arguement. You will definitely get some scientific push back with references to written documentation which supports the theory.
Before coming back to bass guitar, I fronted 2 bands playing acoustic guitar. As Jeff said upthread, the wood on acoustic instruments is generally unfinished on the inside. My Larrivee acoustic is a better sounding instrument after 6 years of regular play.
With solidbody instruments, I don't see time having much of an effect over the short term, especially with poly-finished bodies. I do agree with some of the other posters that it's more about you adjusting to the instrument, the strings settling in, getting the amp setting worked out, etc.
An example is the bass in my avatar--a Birdsong Skyrider. I've had it now for 20 months. It's been my main gig and practice bass since getting it in April '09. The strings on the bass are the original Curt Mangans it came with. It took about 6 months (IMO) for the strings to age to where I like them. The neck is satin finished and starting to get smoothed out from my playing it. I feel like the neck is faster now.
I spent the first 3/-4 months with the bass constantly fiddling with pickup, varitone and amp settings to figure out what worked for me. I started out trying to get the same tone out of the new bass and out of my Epi Elitest EB3, which was my main bass prior to the Skyrider. Now that I've lived with the bass for almost 2 years, I've got it figured out.
As always YMMV...
Mark
With solidbody instruments, I don't see time having much of an effect over the short term, especially with poly-finished bodies. I do agree with some of the other posters that it's more about you adjusting to the instrument, the strings settling in, getting the amp setting worked out, etc.
An example is the bass in my avatar--a Birdsong Skyrider. I've had it now for 20 months. It's been my main gig and practice bass since getting it in April '09. The strings on the bass are the original Curt Mangans it came with. It took about 6 months (IMO) for the strings to age to where I like them. The neck is satin finished and starting to get smoothed out from my playing it. I feel like the neck is faster now.
I spent the first 3/-4 months with the bass constantly fiddling with pickup, varitone and amp settings to figure out what worked for me. I started out trying to get the same tone out of the new bass and out of my Epi Elitest EB3, which was my main bass prior to the Skyrider. Now that I've lived with the bass for almost 2 years, I've got it figured out.
As always YMMV...
Mark
I would think that any scientific push-back would at best be anecdotal. I can also write copious documents and that does not make it the truth.
However - I'm gonna make a crass assumption here: here I am posting on the slab-side of TB and that's where the wood-age-mysticism is directed.
I have an old Kasuga guitar I bought in Japan in 1968 - and although it plays nicely - I cannot for the life of me say it's any better or not, but I wasn't listening for any changes in tone or voice or resonance either.
If I thought slab-bass players were opinionated, then I would have to take that to an exponential level for anyone playing a hollow body guitar, bass or gourd.
My thoughts and posting was for THIS side of TB where the solid-bodies and non-hollow basses live.
I still believe that any perception of improvement to a solid body, polyester or painted bass or even one coated in oil isn't going to change in just one or even two lifetimes. If one were to keep it underwater, perhaps.
I WILL concede 'loosening up' though if the screws and hardware actually fall off the bass as the wood shrinks, or the frets 'sprout' from loss of humidity on a fingerboard.
Maybe some could consider that an improvement - I don't.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
again, this is all your 'assumption' and clearly illustrates that you have no real world experience.
C'mon over to my place and have a cold beer.
I don't particularly appreciate the statement about no real-life experiences.
At 65 I should have had a few. One f'rinstance is: never let an assumption die without proving it one way or another.
The ball is in your court.
You bring the beer.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
Joe,
i meant your familiarity with basses. especially vintage ones. i've read alot of you posts in the basses and amps fourms and i came to realize that quite awhile ago.
You might be right - but then again I have had some successes in the very early '60s in a few surf bands and my Mosrite and another bass that I cannot for the life of me remember - maybe a St George or maybe a Western Auto for all I can remember.
As you stated, I am deficient in the older stuff as I took a 47 year hiatus in playing anything but a record player* and a few juke-boxes*. Oh, and some CDs and MP3s too.
* - old guys will know.
In the past couple of years I've gone through a sorta renaissance for myself in bass as I decided it was the instrument of the angels (OK - just kidding a little) and I wanted to be as good as time has left for me to play.
Almost everything I read I take in with great gusto and I appreciate all the times I get my nose whacked - but still I have some knowledge and even some wood background in custom things I made for me in that time period and even today.
Wood - of and in itself - isn't stable, and we all know that. But put it into a plastic or enamel or nitro sheath or even wax it to a glowing patina on it and it's pretty much sealed and impervious to outside influences.
I know that an open box-type acoustic guitar- or any instrument really - is weather-sensitive and can warp, twist or bend, bag and sag at the knees without adequate preservation.
My post was drawing to a conclusion on a solid body bass and I still would have to hear some tonal qualities shifting to believe that a chunk of wood can get better - eg: 'resonance so' - with age.
There may be changes due to age, but I think they are seriously overstated and are actually mitigated by perceptions, wishes and perhaps the musician's style - and don't forget his hearing isn't getting any better all the time too.
I still want a beer - Invalid Link Removed or Negra Modelo are my favorites.
Invalid Link Removed
I can only offer my anecdotal experience. Poly finishes? No sir, that's just plain crazy. Don't want to wrap my bass in a plastic jacket.
My '65 Jazz...sounds better than any other bass I own. Don't think I'm dreaming that one up. Anectdotal experience:
While playing in ensemble at school (I attend Jeff Berlin's Players School in Clearwater full time), the two teachers moderating the class the day I brought that bass in commented that my bass was one of the few they ever heard that made the tired old school house amp sound good- they didn't know whether it was a '65 Jazz, a '75, '85, '95, or '05. One of the fellows was an upright player, and the other fellow was the drum instructor. They were oblivious to the vintage aspect of the bass; they simply heard the difference. I am sure you would too.
Now if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods, I'll bring over some cool ones, a couple of good basses, and we'll have a good listen. You'll hear it. Or at least have a beer
My '65 Jazz...sounds better than any other bass I own. Don't think I'm dreaming that one up. Anectdotal experience:
While playing in ensemble at school (I attend Jeff Berlin's Players School in Clearwater full time), the two teachers moderating the class the day I brought that bass in commented that my bass was one of the few they ever heard that made the tired old school house amp sound good- they didn't know whether it was a '65 Jazz, a '75, '85, '95, or '05. One of the fellows was an upright player, and the other fellow was the drum instructor. They were oblivious to the vintage aspect of the bass; they simply heard the difference. I am sure you would too.
Now if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods, I'll bring over some cool ones, a couple of good basses, and we'll have a good listen. You'll hear it. Or at least have a beer
I can only offer my anecdotal experience. Poly finishes? No sir, that's just plain crazy. Don't want to wrap my bass in a plastic jacket.
My '65 Jazz...sounds better than any other bass I own. Don't think I'm dreaming that one up. Anectdotal experience:
While playing in ensemble at school (I attend Jeff Berlin's Players School in Clearwater full time), the two teachers moderating the class the day I brought that bass in commented that my bass was one of the few they ever heard that made the tired old school house amp sound good- they didn't know whether it was a '65 Jazz, a '75, '85, '95, or '05. One of the fellows was an upright player, and the other fellow was the drum instructor. They were oblivious to the vintage aspect of the bass; they simply heard the difference. I am sure you would too.
Now if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods, I'll bring over some cool ones, a couple of good basses, and we'll have a good listen. You'll hear it. Or at least have a beer
I'm sure your bass sounds fabulous. Attributing that to a Nitro finish is a bit silly IMO. The current poly finishes are just as thin as the old Poly.
The funny thing is that if you read any decent history of Fender, they were pretty much cutting lumber and bolting these things together
You might be right - but then again I have had some successes in the very early '60s in a few surf bands and my Mosrite and another bass that I cannot for the life of me remember - maybe a St George or maybe a Western Auto for all I can remember.
As you stated, I am deficient in the older stuff as I took a 47 year hiatus in playing anything but a record player* and a few juke-boxes*. Oh, and some CDs and MP3s too.
* - old guys will know.
In the past couple of years I've gone through a sorta renaissance for myself in bass as I decided it was the instrument of the angels (OK - just kidding a little) and I wanted to be as good as time has left for me to play.
Almost everything I read I take in with great gusto and I appreciate all the times I get my nose whacked - but still I have some knowledge and even some wood background in custom things I made for me in that time period and even today.
Wood - of and in itself - isn't stable, and we all know that. But put it into a plastic or enamel or nitro sheath or even wax it to a glowing patina on it and it's pretty much sealed and impervious to outside influences.
I know that an open box-type acoustic guitar- or any instrument really - is weather-sensitive and can warp, twist or bend, bag and sag at the knees without adequate preservation.
My post was drawing to a conclusion on a solid body bass and I still would have to hear some tonal qualities shifting to believe that a chunk of wood can get better - eg: 'resonance so' - with age.
There may be changes due to age, but I think they are seriously overstated and are actually mitigated by perceptions, wishes and perhaps the musician's style - and don't forget his hearing isn't getting any better all the time too.
I still want a beer - Invalid Link Removed or Negra Modelo are my favorites.
Invalid Link Removed
Staying out of the discussion between you and john,but I will say dos equis amber is a fine beer.
Here's some information on accelerated aging of stringed instruments by "shaking". This is primarily about acoustic guitars, but there is a section about "treating" solid body instruments; Invalid Link Removed
Whether this vibration treatment is equivalent to 35 years of playing the instrument is debatable, but they do have some information that confirms vibration changes the instrument being vibrated. Another debate would be whether the induced change is an improvement or not.
It's obvious that years of vibration from playing is going to induce a change in a stringed instrument and it's naive to think it wouldn't. Whether or not that change would be an improvement or not will remain debatable.
Whether this vibration treatment is equivalent to 35 years of playing the instrument is debatable, but they do have some information that confirms vibration changes the instrument being vibrated. Another debate would be whether the induced change is an improvement or not.
It's obvious that years of vibration from playing is going to induce a change in a stringed instrument and it's naive to think it wouldn't. Whether or not that change would be an improvement or not will remain debatable.
