Double Bass Do tape nylon strings have a better sustain than steel strings ?

[Lionel Albert]

It's fine to have country of origin among your criteria to consider, but you are ignoring everything everyone (including yourself) has posted in this thread if you make that your sole criterion.

No, @Francois Blais said it all.
Why Savarez ? They don't have a lot of options in their products but I believe they know what they do.
So I think it's a neutral choice for a neutral sound (I wonder if this concept really exists).
My current strings are maybe a bit too special.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The Savarez Corelli are better for classical arco than (jazz) pizzicato.
They are very bright sounding, very different to black tape wounds.

Any but one of their sets is a bit weak/soft on the lower strings. At least my 380M set is.
The only set that is also used in a jazz context and similar music is the 370F set.

If you want something bowable and with a similar feel to your current strings, plain gut G and D with Evah Pirazzi Solo (B/F# tuned to A/E) or EP Slap A and E would work best. For a bit more sustain on the higher strings the all synthetic EP S look als set.

But I would prefer a used Spiro set over any Corellis, specially if you want to learn to bow as the Spiros tell you if you do something wrong (and older sets are a bit more forgiving and easier to bow).

If you have a high string action, metal wound synthetic (or gut) core strings are easier to press down than steel core strings, but get a new set of synthetic cores.

 

[Francois Blais]

I'd forget Corelli strings as well.
I'm not saying they're bad strings, but you'd better go for something from the masters, like Pirastro and Thomastik-Infeld.
The Corellis have a rough surface and are very bright.
Savarez's mastery is not with bass strings, IMHO.

 

[sean_on_bass]

you're inevitably going to try Spiros in the future, might as well be now to get it over with

 

[Bruce Calin]

I'd forget Corelli strings as well.
I'm not saying they're bad strings, but you'd better go for something from the masters, like Pirastro and Thomastik-Infeld.
The Corellis have a rough surface and are very bright.
Savarez's mastery is not with bass strings, IMHO.

I got a new set for free at a NAMM show several years ago. They didn't stay on for long.

 

[damonsmith]

Spirocores are the cheapest strings since they last for 7 or more years. The other options die much faster since they are already pre-deadened to tone them down in the first place.

 

[Brent Nussey]

Lots of people have different opinions about this recording, but you can definitely bow tapewound strings.


I think if you really like the sound of the nylon wound strings, Spirocore won't give you that. Nothing against Spirocore, they're great strings, but they are the opposite of a unique sound, they are the generic string for jazz.

I know Mr Carter tried many kinds of bow hair and rosin to find something that worked back when he was using the bow. You'll have to also, if you want to keep that sound. In the end, you might or might not find it worth it.

 

[Lionel Albert]

I like this kind of sounds.



This is what I get with my current strings.


There is not so much sustain as I said.
That's strange.

 

[Papageno]

Lots of people have different opinions about this recording, but you can definitely bow tapewound strings.


I think if you really like the sound of the nylon wound strings, Spirocore won't give you that. Nothing against Spirocore, they're great strings, but they are the opposite of a unique sound, they are the generic string for jazz.

I know Mr Carter tried many kinds of bow hair and rosin to find something that worked back when he was using the bow. You'll have to also, if you want to keep that sound. In the end, you might or might not find it worth it.

I hesitated to write this here, but...

TBO, as a lover of Bach's music and an admirer of Ron Carter's incredible contribution to jazz, listening to this makes me profoundly sad.

How such a master could release such a caricature of music is beyond my understanding...

 

[damonsmith]

I don't think he used the nylon strings for Bach, not that it helped him...
Those string have not done him any favors and they will also hold back your progress and anyone else.
Di Casrti sounds better than anyone - I heard him live a few years ago.
However, we can't make decisions based on famous players who play in ideal conditions.
I don't think Spirocores are the best string but they are the best we have. The reason is that all other strings are based on retreating from Spirocores rather than improving on them. Just get some Spirocores and be done with it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I think if you really like the sound of the nylon wound strings, Spirocore won't give you that. Nothing against Spirocore, they're great strings, but they are the opposite of a unique sound, they are the generic string for jazz.

Agreed, although i am noticing that in recent years there are not nearly as many people using Spiros as one would think. Seems many have gone the path of gut or synthetics. hence maybe the Spiro sound is becoming unique in comparison to what everyone is using. maybe @Mark Gollihur can provide us some sales data.

 

[Bruce Calin]

In the 30-40 years of what I consider now the peak of my full-time professional days, I liked Spiros and similar strings largely because I could rely on them in all the different situations I was playing in. I generally liked the sound, but I also knew they were long lasting, wouldn't break, amplified well, were decent to bow with age, and were stable in the various temperature and humidity conditions I would run into. As time and life went on, I realized that I could try others that maybe weren't quite so "pingy" (for lack of a better description) and were easier on aging body parts. I liked them for their utility as well as sound. Nowadays I prefer a rounder, more gutlike tone with less tension. The Spiros definitely served their purpose, but times change.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Spiros are popular for jazz, but they were developed for the Vienna symphony, are played in the bass section of the German WDR radio symphony and a lot of players around play them for anyone of music because no other string has such a large sound and dynamic spectrum. It is just not easy to be able to control that spectrum if you are not used to these strings.

Soundwise gut or synthetic core might be closer to what you expect, but plain gut is not easy to bow (just different from Spiros).

With a plain gut/wound gut set, bowing differs a lot from plain to wound. Good gut strings are very expensive (full would gut sets as well). Wound gut is very reactive to humidity changes and the winding can break because the core swells with higher humidity.

Metal wound synthetic core strings can be very different, some high tension (Dominants, regular Evah Pirazzi), limited in dynamic range (Evah Pirazzi Weich), a bit nasal and quiet bowed (Evah Pirazzi Slaps), hard to start with the bow (some Zyex), get a bit dark over time (Innovation Braided) hard to amplify (Obligato). Polychromes can be a bit bright and the core ages quicker than the one of other synthetic core strings (broken Polychrome prototype strings after a few years).

Don't get new Spiros, they sound extremely bright and depending how much you play can take up to a year to calm down. But because they last very long it is no problem getting them used. Cheaper and already played in. And if you don't like them, you hardly loose any money if you resell them.

All your decision, but if you rather ignore what we recommend, don't expect much help later.

 

[damonsmith]

@DoubleMIDI is not wrong, but I still think going through the break in process will teach you something about strings in general and how these work. Get a new set keep them on for a few years then investigate others.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Soundwise gut or synthetic core might be closer to what you expect, but plain gut is not easy to bow (just different from Spiros).

With a plain gut/wound gut set, bowing differs a lot from plain to wound. Good gut strings are very expensive (full would gut sets as well). Wound gut is very reactive to humidity changes and the winding can break because the core swells with higher humidity.

That's interesting, thanks.
The more I ask, the more I'm lost, I could be someone who would buy a set of strings because of its packaging.
Luckily I don't have a favourite colours.
I'm kidding, I've ever thought of guy strings or imitation but I was scared about what you said.
I wonder if they are worst than the strings I've got, they react to the weather and where I'm playing.
I can't imagine what would happen with gut strings.
I've been playing nylon guitar for decades, they don't move, my guitar can sleep in my car, it doesn't move.
It's another story with my electric guitars.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Just had a look that you are in France. (Now I understand why you initially wanted french strings.)
If you rather live a bit away from the coast humidity swings are not as extreme than in (parts of) the USA.
I'm in West-Germany, so climate should be not that much different.
Still wound gut can detune a lot (plain gut just a bit), but broken windings haven't happened for me.
There are cheaper gut options like the German Efrano and combining plain gut G and D with anything else below is popular too.

I liked Innovation Braided at home and acoustically only a lot, but in the last big band concert I hardly punched through with these older Braided strings. (My Polychrome prototypes that I preferred broke after some years.)
Steel core strings can be a lot harder to press down than your Pyramids, so have an eye on tension and (larger) diameter (of the higher strings mostly).

I still recommend used Spiros from the classifieds or French DB forums. Easy to resell if you don't like them. If you like them, you can get a new set later and know where you would get after the initial fight. And you have a spare set in case a string breaks.

 

[Don Hergert]

... The more I ask, the more I'm lost, I could be someone who would buy a set of strings because of its packaging.
Luckily I don't have a favourite colours. ...

While I love the old-school sound of plain gut and plain gut-like strings, they have very fast decay (very little "sustain")... Plain guts can also be very loud, but they tend to be dark in tone If you're interested in pleasing your desire for slow decay (lots of "sustain"), plain guts or plain gut-like strings are not the strings you want. And btw, plain guts tend to be easier to bow than synthetic wrapped or synthetic wound strings (some which are nearly impossible to bow).

It sounds like you want modern sounding strings, which is exactly what Spiros are, and that's why we tend to keep mentioning them as if they are a standard -- they are. Spiros have very slow decay (lots of "sustain"). They also have strong volume and they tend to cut through the mix well, they have a slight metallic tone compared to non-metal core strings.

For me personally there are three valid reasons I do not use Spiros (or other high tension metal core, metal wound strings):
1) I have hand problems related to arthritis and my hands don't tolerate high tension.
2) I play an aluminum double bass and strive to minimize metallic tone with my strings.
3) I prefer an old-school sound.
So for my needs, plain gut or plain gut-like strings are the best answer.

If I didn't have those reasons, I'd at least have tried Spiros, and probably would be playing them today.

And btw, the reason I tend to use the terms decay and "sustain" is that technically sustain is the length of a note like in terms of having a key down on an organ keyboard or like the stroke of a violin bow -- long sustain means the organ key is held down, the bow stroke is long for the note. Decay is how long the note continues after a string is stroked, or after a drum is hit. So for pizz on a double bass, decay is the right term; for arco on a double bass, sustain is the right term.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Agreed, although i am noticing that in recent years there are not nearly as many people using Spiros as one would think. Seems many have gone the path of gut or synthetics. hence maybe the Spiro sound is becoming unique in comparison to what everyone is using. maybe @Mark Gollihur can provide us some sales data.

I mean, nothing specific, but the Spiros are still among the best-selling strings for upright. It's common to see threads on here where people tried new strings, stuck with them shortly, and then posted a follow-up saying, "I don't know what I was thinking - I'm going back to Spiros."

And in its >50 year history, the Spirocore string has become pretty much the string most other strings are compared to, as it's pretty much assumed that you know what they sound/feel/play like if you've been playing bass for more than a minute.

 

[Lionel Albert]

I mean, nothing specific, but the Spiros are still among the best-selling strings for upright. It's common to see threads on here where people tried new strings, stuck with them shortly, and then posted a follow-up saying, "I don't know what I was thinking - I'm going back to Spiros."

And in its >50 year history, the Spirocore string has become pretty much the string most other strings are compared to, as it's pretty much assumed that you know what they sound/feel/play like if you've been playing bass for more than a minute.

That sounds Pavlovian.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

That sounds Pavlovian.

I don't disagree. Personally, I prefer other strings - particularly on my own bass. But there does seem to be a certain magic for some players; the Spiros just tend to bring out the best in a lot of basses (subject to personal preference, of course.)