Do We or Don't We? Mexico? Too Dangerous???

[eddododo]

the girl from my city went to mexico and never came back, true story.


A mexican guy I play soccer with said 'the last thing you want to do is be a bunch of white boys with thousands in gear in alot of parts of mexico, and these days it has a heavy relevance to the tourist areas'

his family is still back there any tells me regularly about just a horror stories that are way closer to home than you would ever wanna hope

 

[Lonnybass]

My day gig is on the corporate security team for a global Fortune 50 company.

We have 6 countries on the "No Business Travel" list, including Mexico. All the others are in the Middle East.

Lonnybass

 

[Mystic Michael]

Yeah we know. But if you read the posts in between you'll realize that we transitioned into a general discussion on the risks of travel and how seriously they should/shouldn't be taken....

Sheeesh Mystic, trying to kill our vibe man!

And if you read my post carefully, you'd realize that I wasn't referring to those of you who have "transitioned into a general discussion". Once again - and to be extra special careful in spelling this out, so that you can't possibly distort my intent again - I was addressing those who seemed to be advising the OP on whether or not to take a trip that was scheduled for nearly two years ago.

Comprende usted? Capiche?

Carry on then. Knock yourselves out...

MM

 

[Gaius46]

My wife and I went to Mexico last year. We spent some time in Cancun, went to Chichen Itza and spent some time in some small inland towns. The missus is from Spain, speaks Castilian Spanish, and while her Spanish differs considerably from that spoken in Mexico being able to speak to the locals absolutely made the trip easier and more enjoyable.

 

[AndreBas]

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders, Mexico, 2009: 9,614
Number of Murders, Mexico, 20010: 15,273

I'd play in Mexico anytime and take my family with me. The US is a very violent country, yet its citizens think they live in the most peaceful spot on earth. I have known many US citizens who wouldn't even travel to Europe.

The drug cartels/mafia or whatever have no interest in some musician's gear, that's less than peanuts for them. Only regular thieves would be interested, just as in any other country (including the US.)



sources
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html[/url]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mexico-drug-war-murders-map

 

[BawanaRik]

For five grand? I'ld do it in a heartbeat. I've been to Mexico since all this troubles began and for the typical keep your nose out of other business person it's not an issue.

And I was in a border town. Would you play Detroit? I'll bet Monterey is safer.

From what I hear talking to the locals it a matter of taking care of business. If you are not a part of "business" you really don't have much to worry about.

 

[ChrisB2]

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241

Number of Murders, Mexico, 2009: 9,614
Number of Murders, Mexico, 20010: 15,273

Meaningless, since there are a lot more people living in the US than in Mexico.

Intentional Homicide rate per 100,000 population:
United States: 4.8
Mexico: 18

So you're roughly four times more likely to be killed in Mexico than here.

And that's taking the US as a whole. If you look at the world map in the link below, certain rural areas of the US, like where I live, are extremely safe, comparable to European rates.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

[baileyboy]

I've been to Mexico a few times in the past, in happier, less dangerous times. I would not go now.

Same here. My girlfriend and I vacationed back the the mid 2000s and had a great time. Saw the Mayan ruins at Tulem, swam with the dolphins, yada yada, yada... Glad I went when I did; I would not go today.

Rule of thumb: If you have to ask, you already know the answer.

 

[Mystic Michael]

The drug cartels/mafia or whatever have no interest in some musician's gear, that's less than peanuts for them. Only regular thieves would be interested, just as in any other country (including the US.)

Probably true. But the "regular thieves" themselves are a menace not to be trifled with.

The problem is that the culture of rampant lawlessness, developed largely by the drug cartels, has created a criminal ecosystem in which even ordinary banditos are far more numerous than they otherwise would be, and far more ruthless and bloodthirsty in their tactics than they otherwise would be. With law enforcement seriously outnumbered, outgunned and on the defensive, this is always what happens.

Would you play Detroit? I'll bet Monterey is safer.

I'll bet it's not...

MM

 

[CrewsControl]

Meaningless, since there are a lot more people living in the US than in Mexico.

Intentional Homicide rate per 100,000 population:
United States: 4.8
Mexico: 18

So you're roughly four times more likely to be killed in Mexico than here.

New Orleans, LA 49.1
St. Louis, MO 40.5
Baltimore, MD 34.8
Detroit, MI 34.5
Newark, NJ 32.1
Oakland, CA 22.0
Washington, D.C. 21.9
Kansas City, MO 21.1
Buffalo, NY 20.7
Cincinnati, OH 20.5
Philadelphia, PA 19.6
Cleveland, OH 19.0

Same source as yours.

 

[BawanaRik]

I ccan't help thinking there's a certain bias against certain people due to preconcived notions.

I've been in third world nations and for the most part am impressed with just how decent the people are.

New Orleans, LA 49.1
St. Louis, MO 40.5
Baltimore, MD 34.8
Detroit, MI 34.5
Newark, NJ 32.1
Oakland, CA 22.0
Washington, D.C. 21.9
Kansas City, MO 21.1
Buffalo, NY 20.7
Cincinnati, OH 20.5
Philadelphia, PA 19.6
Cleveland, OH 19.0

Same source as yours.

 

[AndreBas]

certain rural areas of the US, like where I live, are extremely safe,

I guess you wouldn't believe it, but... certain rural areas of the Unites States of Mexico, like where some Mexican farmers live, are extremely safe, ...

I bet you have never been to Monterrey just like the other 99% in this thread haven't. Still you know that any musician (!) could easily be killed over there.

Would you play any of those dangerous cities for 5k? (I would)

New Orleans, LA 49.1
St. Louis, MO 40.5
Baltimore, MD 34.8
Detroit, MI 34.5
Newark, NJ 32.1
Oakland, CA 22.0
Washington, D.C. 21.9
Kansas City, MO 21.1
Buffalo, NY 20.7
Cincinnati, OH 20.5
Philadelphia, PA 19.6
Cleveland, OH 19.0

 

[guy n. cognito]

I guess you wouldn't believe it, but... certain rural areas of the Unites States of Mexico, like where some Mexican farmers live, are extremely safe, ...

I bet you have never been to Monterey just like the other 99% in this thread haven't. Still you know that any musician (!) could easily be killed over there.

Would you play any of those dangerous cities for 5k? (I would)

I'll play:

Juarez: 130 per 100,000.

How am I doing???

 

[guy n. cognito]

Here's another interesting link:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[AndreBas]

Here's another interesting link:
Invalid Link Removed

Thanks for this link and proving that Monterrey is actually safer than Detroit:

30 Detroit USA 346 713,777 48.47
38 Monterrey Mexico 1,680 4,160,339 40.38

 

[guy n. cognito]

Thanks for this link and proving that Monterrey is actually safer than Detroit:

30 Detroit USA 346 713,777 48.47
38 Monterrey Mexico 1,680 4,160,339 40.38

5 of the 10 most dangerous cities in the world are in Mexico, and you're comparing #30 to #38?

Kudos. You should be a politician.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Ranking of the 50 Most Dangerous Cities in the World for 2011

Rank City Country Murders Population Rate
1 San Pedro Sula Honduras 1,143 719,447 158.87
2 Juárez Mexico 1,974 1,335,890 147.77
3 Maceio Brazil 1,564 1,156,278 135.26
4 Acapulco Mexico 1,029 804,412 127.92
5 Tegucigalpa Honduras 1,123 1,126,534 99.69
6 Caracas Venezuela 3,164 3,205,463 98.71
7 Torreón Mexico 990 1,128,152 87.75
8 Chihuahua Mexico 690 831,693 82.96
9 Durango Mexico 474 593,389 79.88
10 Belém Brazil 1,639 2,100,319 78.04
11 Cali Colombia 1,720 2,207,994 77.90
12 Guatemala City Guatemala 2,248 3,014,060 74.58
13 Culiacán Mexico 649 871,620 74.46
14 Medellín Colombia 1,624 2,309,446 70.32
15 Mazatlán Mexico 307 445,343 68.94
16 Tepic Mexico 299 439,362 68.05
17 Vitoria Brazil 1,143 1,685,384 67.82
18 Veracruz Mexico 418 697,414 59.94
19 Ciudad Guayana Venezuela 554 940,477 58.91
20 San Salvador El Salvador 1,343 2,290,790 58.63
21 New Orleans USA 199 343,829 57.88
22 Salvador Brazil 2,037 3,574,804 56.98
23 Cúcuta Colombia 335 597,385 56.08
24 Barquisimeto Venezuela 621 1,120,718 55.41
25 San Juan Puerto Rico 225 427,789 52.60
26 Manaus Brazil 1,079 2,106,866 51.21
27 São Luís Brazil 516 1,014,837 50.85
28 Nuevo Laredo Mexico 191 389,674 49.02
29 João Pessoa Brazil 583 1,198,675 48.64
30 Detroit USA 346 713,777 48.47
31 Cuiaba Brazil 403 834,060 48.32
32 Recife Brazil 1,793 3,717,640 48.23
33 Kingston Jamaica 550 1,169,808 47.02
34 Cape Town South Africa 1,614 3,497,097 46.15
35 Pereira Colombia 177 383,623 46.14
36 Macapa Brazil 225 499,116 45.08
37 Fortaleza Brazil 1,514 3,529,138 42.90
38 Monterrey Mexico 1,680 4,160,339 40.38
39 Curitiba Brazil 720 1,890,272 38.09
40 Goiânia Brazil 484 1,302,001 37.17
41 Port Elizabeth South Africa 381 1,050,930 36.25
42 Barranquilla Colombia 424 1,182,493 35.86
43 St. Louis USA 113 319,294 35.39
44 Mosul Iraq 636 1,800,000 35.33
45 Belo Horizonte Brazil 1,680 4,883,721 34.40
46 Panama City Panama 543 1,713,070 31.70
47 Cuernavaca Mexico 198 630,174 31.42
48 Baltimore USA 195 620,961 31.40
49 Durban South Africa 1,059 3,468,087 30.54
50 Johannesburg South Africa 1,186 3,888,180 30.50


Read it at Advantage Mexico - Five of the top 10 most violent cities in the world for 2011 are in Mexico - Advantage Mexico News Invalid Link Removed
Gracias!

 

[guy n. cognito]

5 of the top 10, 9 of the top twenty. The USA doesn't even make an appearance until #30 and only has 5 cities in the 4 top fifty. Of course, none of this takes into account the lack of consistent reporting in Mexico relative to the US.

I'll take Detroit, thank you very much.

 

[fishdreams]

Of course, none of this takes into account the lack of consistent reporting in Mexico relative to the US..

"of course" ...and where did you get THAT wisdom?
I guess you are going to start your next reply with "Everybody knows that...."

I moved from a sleepy European country to the States 8 years ago. Now I live in a country with raging paranoia on all levels of society accompanied by 200 million + hand guns. So no, I don't feel safe in the good ole US of A. But you know what, i am still alive, the music is great, I'm enjoying myself, getting older and wiser, and hey, in my peaceful home country i might meanwhile have gotten hit by a bus or perished in a bizarre suburban gardening accident. Staying home is NOT SAFE!

Every place has its good an bad spots and to discard a whole nation as 'dangerous' from behind the computer desk is fear, and nothing but fear.

I'd do the gig. At least I'd have my grandchildren some cool story to tell, which I can embellish freely, if it turned out to be unexpectedly boring and horribly uneventful.

 

[guy n. cognito]

"of course" ...and where did you get THAT wisdom?
I guess you are going to start your next reply with "Everybody knows that...."

Actually, it's kinda common knowledge. I'm not going to do all of your research for you, but here are just a few articles stating such:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico
http://www.publicengines.com/blog/2009/09/02/crime-mapping-and-sms-could-reduce-mexican-crime/
http://www.prominix.com/sblock/admin/images/Mexico Crime Stats 2010.pdf
Invalid Link Removed
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/us-mexico-crime-idUSTRE78J74I20110920