Do we really need super powerful amps anymore?

[Groove Doctor]

Maybe your Dad was saying be smarter with your money, but cleverly disguised it in a logical & practical argument.

In my opinion, going into debt for bass gear is ........ how do I say this nicely...... silly.

If you have to "apply for finance" you can't afford it. If you can't afford it, get something used/cheap and save up for your dream rig.

So, I dismiss the premise of the question before we even get to it.

That being said, it really all depends on what kind of situation you do/will gig in as to whether or not you need a big rig.

TalkBass is full of guys (mostly middle-aged, including me) who can afford these little luxuries.

In my first 14 years of playing, I did HEAPS of gigs with just two basses and a 200W 15" combo. I didn't start collecting gear until my mid 30's.

Be patient - things will come your way when the time is right.

 

[jaywa]

This is so much a context driven question. The biggest rig I have ever rolled in my life is a 300w head and 410 cab. That rig has not come on a gig with me for the last 5 or 6 years and we're looking at several hundred dates played over that time. In fact I have sold that rig off in the past year and very much doubt I'll ever go that big again. My "big" amp now is a 150w combo with DI and even that has sat in the closet for quite some time now as more and more of my dates are DI to the board.

All that being said, literally none of those dates has ever been without PA support for the bass and well over half of them have been IEM situations where only minimal or no stage volume was needed for monitoring. I'll still never turn down the opportunity to play through a nice rig if provided, of course, but the days of buying, storing, maintaining and moving a big heavy rig are over for me. I simply don't need it anymore for what I'm doing.

 

[popgadget]

In Ear Monitoring is great, I use that too, but you will not feel any low end from IEMs.

That's not necessarily the case, with good IEM's I can't tell if my rig is turned up or not. The downside is that good IEM's and a transmitter/receiver cost as much or more as a big rig.

I use small rigs for most of my gigs because I'm old and lazy and don't feel like moving them and most of them have PA. But there is no question that my biggest rig sounds the best, even at a low volume. I'm just old and lazy.

I'm with Jimmy on this. As a builder of Greenboy cabs, I've always got some serious cab and amp firepower available, but use a 110 with a Puma 900 most often for the same reasons.

 

[Dbassmon]

That's not necessarily the case, with good IEM's I can't tell if my rig is turned up or not. The downside is that good IEM's and a transmitter/receiver cost as much or more as a big rig.

I don't know what IEM system you are using but I want to know.... Nothing can move air like a speaker which you feel as low end. I hear low frequencies in my IEMs but don't feel them...if that makes any sense.

On another note, big fan of your awesome cabs. Great stuff!

 

[s0c9]

I don't know what IEM system you are using but I want to know.... Nothing can move air like a speaker which you feel as low end. I hear low frequencies in my IEMs but don't feel them...if that makes any sense.

Yeah it makes complete sense to me, as it's similar to guitar player needs, but does tend to create a challenge in getting you guys moved to IEM's!

I run full [wireless] IEM 99.999999999% of the time. 75% of the venues I play have house systems with multiple subs built in. One has six dual 18's under the stage.
I have no problem "feeling" the bass (especially when I hit a low "B" ). I get plenty of bass in my A8's and have full control of the mix levels via my android/iOS device.
Yes, I have an amp (SVT7PRO) and cab (900w 2x10) on stage - but it's so the guitar player can hear me combined with the house subs. He's NOT IEM..
When I play at church, it's DI -> IEM, so dropping my amp would not really bother me much.

 

[Medford Bassman]

we usually carry our own PA with us (QSC K12's and KW181 subs). We run the whole band through it no amps on stage and electronic drums. We also run sound from the stage and all members use IEM. I know it's not for everyone but it works perfectly for us. I run sound and it has simplified my job immensely. We get more compliments about our sound. I've used those simple portable recorders just out in the crowd at gig and am always impressed at the clarity and quality of our sound.
When we need to go louder? I just rent a few more K12's and KW181's and daisy link them. I should say, in all the years I've only had to rent more twice.

 

[seamonkey]

I don't know what IEM system you are using but I want to know.... Nothing can move air like a speaker which you feel as low end. I hear low frequencies in my IEMs but don't feel them...if that makes any sense.

On another note, big fan of your awesome cabs. Great stuff!

tecamp Pleasure board, or bolt a bass kicker to a chair

What's funny about tactile feel is it is not pitched. It takes a lot of work for your ears to hear pitch. Shaking your butt doesn't need to be. The VR technologist know this and design shaky things to essentially just shake.

 

[popgadget]

I don't know what IEM system you are using but I want to know.. On another note, big fan of your awesome cabs. Great stuff!

Westone multi driver custom molds, Sennheiser EW300 receiver/transmitter.
Thanks for the cab support.

 

[greggcowanom]

Big, heavy, loud, powerful and evil!! I wanna feel it on my back!! I want the oomph! I want my face to flap in the wind my fridge creates! I want knees to buckle and booties to shake!

(necessary? maybe no... fun? definitely!)

ill bet sound techs love you. lol

 

[JimmyM]

ill bet sound techs love you. lol

Some of the very best sounding shows I've been to have had the bands playing at excessive stage volumes, and some of the very worst sounding shows I've been to have been ampless with the drummer playing behind plexiglas. Not recommending people blow out a 50 seat jazz club with 810's and Marshall full stacks, but I've heard many a sound tech ruin the sound of a band by insisting on super quiet stage volume.

 

[greggcowanom]

I don't know what IEM system you are using but I want to know.... Nothing can move air like a speaker which you feel as low end. I hear low frequencies in my IEMs but don't feel them...if that makes any sense.

On another note, big fan of your awesome cabs. Great stuff!

iems with dynamic drivers actually do move air. I use sony 7550's with a 14 mm dynamic and you literally feel the low end. Aurasonic kickers are also amazing sounding iems with dynamic drivers

 

[CryingBass]

I used to have an Acoustic 360/361 rig in the 70's.
It sounded great, and it got very loud.

THANK GOD I don't have to lug something like that around anymore!
( but I swear, if I found a mint one again, I would buy it!

 

[oddeotek]

I also had an Acoustic 360 rig back in the 70s as well as a couple of even larger rigs, but that was long ago and I love having a small modular rig now - 2 small Hartke 15" cabs and a Hartke head. The fidelity is better and I try hard to play at a volume that is appropriate for each venue. As a vocalist/bass player and occasional FOH engineer, the priority has become a balanced and comfortable stage volume so everyone can hear each other. As much as I loved melting faces in the back of the room back then, age and experience have taught me to play nicer with the FOH mix.
In short, my vote is to get a decent small rig now and see if you outgrow it before you go into debt over a big rig. I ran FOH for a 6 piece classic rock band a week ago whose bass player showed up with a Fender Rumble 100! That's a single 12" speaker with just 100 watts behind it. I had him on a DI but there were songs that I actually had to back him out of FOH to achieve a decent mix - and the guitar players had Marshall half-stacks!

 

[Barbaric.Eric]

and the guitar players had Marshall half-stacks

Be honest... they also had the gals didn't they? ;P

 

[EdO.]

Be honest... they also had the gals didn't they? ;P

Any female who is most impressed primarily by the size of my amplifier isn't someone I'm likely to have much interest in...

 

[stratovani]

I'm a 62 year old weakling, so for me smaller and lighter is much better. I play through a GK MB115 combo with a 15" speaker, and with good FOH I use it strictly as a monitor. We know a couple of good soundmen with good PAs so a small combo is all I really need. When my band has to provide sound I use two MB115s stacked one on top of the other, which is plenty loud enough to be heard at any venue we play. But at my age toting a fridge is not in the cards, and bass amp technology is great nowadays, so I don't think a monster rig is necessary anymore.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I'm a 62 year old weakling, so for me smaller and lighter is much better.

I'm getting there fast myself. Try as I have though I can't find any cabs I like more than the 50(ish)lb Bag End 15's...none that are any smaller or lighter anyway. Ok slight derail: I know there are lots of compact folding hand trucks out there but this one is especially good. It's very well built (the previous version served me well for over 15 years of hard use til it was stolen) and the new version has a curved handle that lets you load it higher than the handle. I've used a lot of these things and this is by far the best folder I've seen if not the least expensive. The worse my knees and back get the more a hand truck is an essential part of my kit and I'd rather spend a little more for something I'm not fighting and cursing.

 

[Hahaha]

About 50% of my gigs these days have PA support. Even with those there are times when I have to turn my 500 watt, 4x10 rig up pretty loud to keep up with some of the drummers that I work with. Last weekend two of the gigs I played had PA support, but the bass tone in the monitors was boxy and unpleasant to work with. I was also getting a bit of speaker frap in one system (inexperienced sound man) so I don't think I would feel comfortable with a rig smaller than the one I use. At times, even with PA support I feel like I would like to have a bit more power. I agree with those who say we all need to turn down, but in my world, even with older experienced players, that just doesn't seem to happen when you have more than one guitar player on stage.

 

[Kragnorak]

What do you think? Vote in the poll!

I voted 'No, unless your tone requires it."

Because they are not needed, but I still like them. When I opened for the Winery Dogs, they were touring with a band called Sixxis. The bassist is great but was not bothering using an amp whatsoever because they usually had limited setup time. So he went DI and trusted the soundguy. He sounded good, but Billy Sheehan sounded WAY better with his complex multi-amp rig.

So there you go; not necessary, but desirable.

Also, I very much want my own amp for monitoring purposes. I know that at gigs where they take my direct signal the audience is not hearing what I am, but what I hear affects my attack and vibrato so I like to have a responsive amp.

 

[Kragnorak]

Ya know what, every place I play has a pro PA and ever show I tell the soundman what I want in my monitors and guess what? It's almost never there! I have a big rig because that's the sound I want and so that I can hear myself on the stage cuz most soundman are morons in Detroit area. For this same reason my guitar player has a live cab on my side so I can hear him and I just added a second cab on his side. I try not to rely on these guys who can mix, we can't hear, show sucks. I want that vol behind me, that I can control

I just played a gig with a band that brings their own mixer, and sends the feed to the soundman!