Double Bass do you agree with Spbgma's policy concerning "electric" instruments?

[Steve Swan]

I can understand the motivation. Attempts to recreate an art form that had its beginnings 60-75 years ago often results in sef-parody and a triviality that results from self-imposed very narrow limits. Witness what happened to "Traditional Jazz" as it morphed into the silly "Dixieland (without the jazz)" in the 1960s or the sanitized presentation of earnest "Folk Music" around the same time.

What is most important is being able to tell a genuine story with conviction, presented in a way that is authentic to the story teller. Trying to push back the tides of change by limiting the choice of instrumental voice is usually futile. One of my very part-time groups that I am lucky to play in has not just one bass guitar, but two of them! Just as Bill Monroe's futuristic group couldn't be understood or categorized by Roy Acuff in 1940 or even 1950, what pigeonhole do you put a group into that combines old-time mountain singing, a spare archtop banjo center to the instrumental core, Stanley Brothers duet harmonies, 2-3 fiddles playing danceable tunes at danceable tempos, one bass guitar played as if it was a Moroccan Berber frame drum, and the other bass guitar played as a simplified counter rhythm and psychedelic surf guitar lead instrument? Who cares, as long as you respond to it. We'll be playing for peanuts at a major indoor regional bluegrass festival in a couple of weeks.

Feeling limited by the difficulties of traveling to a SPGMA event with a string bass? I wouldn't worry about it. I have noticed that playing the same traditional bluegrass music on the same traditional bluegrass instruments at a music festival without the word "Bluegrass" in the festival name will usually result in a 50-300% increase in the amount of the band's payday! Play what you love and use the instrumental tools that you have. Take Bill Monroe's advice and chart your own path.

 

[martinc]

I can understand the motivation. Attempts to recreate an art form that had its beginnings 60-75 years ago often results in sef-parody and a triviality that results from self-imposed very narrow limits. Witness what happened to "Traditional Jazz" as it morphed into the silly "Dixieland (without the jazz)" in the 1960s or the sanitized presentation of earnest "Folk Music" around the same time.

What is most important is being able to tell a genuine story with conviction, presented in a way that is authentic to the story teller. Trying to push back the tides of change by limiting the choice of instrumental voice is usually futile. One of my very part-time groups that I am lucky to play in has not just one bass guitar, but two of them! Just as Bill Monroe's futuristic group couldn't be understood or categorized by Roy Acuff in 1940 or even 1950, what pigeonhole do you put a group into that combines old-time mountain singing, a spare archtop banjo center to the instrumental core, Stanley Brothers duet harmonies, 2-3 fiddles playing danceable tunes at danceable tempos, one bass guitar played as if it was a Moroccan Berber frame drum, and the other bass guitar played as a simplified counter rhythm and psychedelic surf guitar lead instrument? Who cares, as long as you respond to it. We'll be playing for peanuts at a major indoor regional bluegrass festival in a couple of weeks.

Feeling limited by the difficulties of traveling to a SPGMA (Spam?) event with a string bass? I wouldn't worry about it. I have noticed that playing the same music on the same instruments at a music festival without the word "Bluegrass" in the festival name will usually result in a 50-300% increase in the amount of the band's payday! Play what you love and use the instrumental tools that you have. Take Bill Monroe's advice and chart your own path.

Steve: Thoughtful post.
I agree with your conclusion but I would take issue though with your notion that traditional bluegrassers are "trying to push back the tides of change by limiting the choice of instrumental voice....". From what I see, they simply want to enjoy bluegrass the way they like it. They don't necessarily want to stop others from playing a different style of bluegrass music.
I may not like the videos that were posted earlier on this thread but who cares? Let them play what they want. If enough people like it, they they may make a few bucks.
Things do change. I found myself playing songs made popular by the Grateful Dead, the Rolling Stones, Carole King and Judy Garland over the past four or five years. They were mixed in with cabin songs and fiddle tunes. It worked for me and for the audiences.
As you mentioned....Bill Monroe was right. He took the music of his day and made it into something unique. He told me in an interview a few years before he died, that he was happy Elvis recorded "Blue Moon of Kentucky" in his own way. But he was also proud that people were still playing his music. This sounds like a reasonable man to me.
Perhaps the "avant garde" bluegrassers who need to put down traditional bluegrassers in order to justify what they are doing should take note. And don't forget when you all get old the new generation could well be criticizing you for being out of date.
Bluegrass music is not a big enough genre to have this kind of squabbling going on. The bluegrass tent has become quite large. There is still lots of room left in it.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I love Bluegrass, and until recently, played with a couple of the hottest pickers in the New Mexico region, but I refuse to join the "Bluegrass Club". Yes, I play upright. Yes, I prefer to use a mic (and have got to great lengths to get there). Yes, we did go back to the origins of Bluegrass for much of our repertoire and inspiration. No, I do not think it's the only way, nor the only music worth playing.

I understand the desire to hold on to what we hold dear, but I don't understand the desire to dictate how others approach a style of music that I certainly didn't invent.

 

[SAlcott]

If they really want to be authentic, the basses used should have only gut strings, be made of plywood with a string height of no less than 2 cm on the g string, and the bass player should have a commercial license so he can drive the bus.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

I would presume that the Society for the Preservation of Bluegrass Music in America has a charter and that the members of SPBGMA have every right to ignore what I (or anybody else) thinks about their chosen principles.

It comes down to politics, really, which is a subject better not discussed in online fora!

 

[jthisdell]

If they really want to be authentic, the basses used should have only gut strings, be made of plywood with a string height of no less than 2 cm on the g string, and the bass player should have a commercial license so he can drive the bus.

And be one of the guys Sister, Girlfriend, Wife, Mom...

 

[Holdsg]

I attended the main Nashville SPGMA in Feb of 2015, I flew in, so I brought my NS Design stick bass, with my portable, battery powered, bass cab.
Mind you, I didn't participate in any of the "band competition/showcase stuff", just jamming in the lobby and hallways of the hotel for a day or 2.
I did not get one sideways glance or comment from any of the jammers. So the attendees were cool, as long as I kept it on the down low.
Now, if I'd pulled out my kala u-bass.....?

 

[james condino]

If they really want to be authentic, the basses used should have only gut strings, be made of plywood with a string height of no less than 2 cm on the g string, and the bass player should have a commercial license so he can drive the bus.

+1000.....

....and be strong enough to load the rest of the drunks in the bus when they have passed out or been knocked out in a fight....

 

[Murdoc_420]

No boxers, Only Tighty Whiteys.

And good luck having a concert in 'Murica without alcohol!

Can't plug an electric bass in but you can mic an upright through a PA?

Eh, give me Newgrass anyday, sounds about the same and the people are a whole lot more fun!

 

[martinc]

No boxers, Only Tighty Whiteys.

And good luck having a concert in 'Murica without alcohol!

Can't plug an electric bass in but you can mic an upright through a PA?

Eh, give me Newgrass anyday, sounds about the same and the people are a whole lot more fun!

Murdoc: If you can't tell the difference in sound and style between a mic'd upright bass and an electric bass, may I suggest that you have your hearing checked out? And soon.
Nothing wrong with Newgrass. Nothing wrong with traditional bluegrass. It's what you like.
The only thing wrong is posts like yours. Who are you to judge which kind of bluegrass music causes it's devotees to have more fun than people who like other styles of bluegrass? May I also suggest you get out more?

 

[Murdoc_420]

Murdoc: If you can't tell the difference in sound and style between a mic'd upright bass and an electric bass, may I suggest that you have your hearing checked out? And soon.
Nothing wrong with Newgrass. Nothing wrong with traditional bluegrass. It's what you like.
The only thing wrong is posts like yours. Who are you to judge which kind of bluegrass music causes it's devotees to have more fun than people who like other styles of bluegrass? May I also suggest you get out more?

Wow tension.... Maybe it's the rules, may I suggest boxers?

 

[zontar]

It's not binding law for bands who want to identify as bluegrass...
Bu if it's what they want to do--they can do that & set it up for their competitions, exhibitions, whatever, etc.

 

[martinc]

Wow tension.... Maybe it's the rules, may I suggest boxers?

murdoc: I have no objection to an electric bass or an electric upright......no matter what kind of bluegrass they are used for.I must admit that I sometimes wonder if I would be better off with an electric upright so I don't have to drag my upright around so much.
If SPGMA wants to ban electric basses that's their prerogative. If that means fewer bands at their events and fewer people attending...they will find that they made the wrong decision. No need for derision and insults though.

 

[Murdoc_420]

Dude seriously you need to chill.

The OP asked for our opinions and I gave mine. It was a bit tongue in cheek at that but you kind of proved my point.

Someone else suggested in breeding but I don't see you giving them a load of crap about it, MOVE ON.

 

[Dan Eubanks]

I attended the main Nashville SPGMA in Feb of 2015, I flew in, so I brought my NS Design stick bass, with my portable, battery powered, bass cab.
Mind you, I didn't participate in any of the "band competition/showcase stuff", just jamming in the lobby and hallways of the hotel for a day or 2.
I did not get one sideways glance or comment from any of the jammers. So the attendees were cool, as long as I kept it on the down low.
Now, if I'd pulled out my kala u-bass.....?

I'm only referring to on stage activities at sponsored spbgma events, the jam scene is no holds barred and really cool! Thanks everyone for your thoughts, keep in mind I am only talking about that organization's events, not "bluegrass" at large, of course it is a giant can of worms!

 

[Atshen]

Is that a joke?

They should rename themselves as the SAEIBM: the Society Against Evolution In Bluegrass Music.

 

[BobKay]

If they really want to be authentic, the basses used should have only gut strings, be made of plywood with a string height of no less than 2 cm on the g string, and the bass player should have a commercial license so he can drive the bus.

And don't forget big floppy shoes, a red nose and a hat.

 

[brianrost]

This thread reminds me of the time I saw Canadian folksinger Garnet Rogers playing a Roland guitar synth and he introduced it to the audience as "what folkies call the guitar from hell".

I've played in a lot of "traditional" music styles and in all of them there is some resistance to modernization. Drums and bass guitar still top the list of no-nos.

The original bluegrass bands thought of themselves as country musicians who just never plugged in, they played the Opry, their records were played on country radio alongside Hank Williams, Ernest Tubb and Lefty Frizell, they sang truck driving and cheating songs, etc. It wasn't until the 1960s that the folk audience latched onto bluegrass as a distinct style and the interest in "traditional" bluegrass really started. Flatt and Scruggs reportedly were amazed when they first played in NYC and the audience wanted to hear more of the "mountain music" that they themsleves considered old hat.

New Grass Revival and David Grisman had a real uphill battle within the bluegrass world and things really haven't changed that much based on what I hear at bluegrass festivals. There's always a few envelope pushing acts, some better than others, but a good proportion of the up and comers still lean heavily on the traditional sound and look. There's always been evolution in bluegrass, Alison Krauss doesn't sound like Flatt and Scruggs. Earl Scruggs himself was a huge leap from the frailing banjo style. Clarence White and Tony Rice introduced guitar soloing.

The biggest change has been the songs themselves and the vocals. Groups like the Country Gentlemen and Seldom Scene changed from the nasal "high lonesome" vocal sound to a smoother blend of tight harmony and looked outside bluegrass and country music for material. That has taken hold throughout the genre, Alison Krauss (again) being a great example with her covers of the Beatles and Bad Company. Most of her repertoire would not be out of place on a James Taylor or Dan Fogelberg record, but she always records one or two hard grass tunes sung by one of her bandmates on her albums. She's thoroughly modern but she never leaves the traditional sound behind.

 

[martinc]

And don't forget big floppy shoes, a red nose and a hat.

BobKay: Thanks for the illuminating and thoughtful response.

Maybe it's time for this thread to be closed.

 

[BobKay]

Martinc,
Already gave my thoughtful and illuminating response very early in the thread. I think it tracks very closely with your thinking. The other post was simply referencing an earlier time when the bass player was expected to provide comic relief. And in some cases did wear a red nose, floppy shoes and an outsized hat. No intent to offend, just an extension of another's sentiment.