Do you need music theory?

[stringtapper]

In any case, if you don't understand music theory, you likely wouldn't recognize errors in transcriptions.

I'm not even sure anymore what point you are trying to make.

Seems like this first sentence you wrote was her point…?

 

[Ross Gibson]

It is literally the language of music.

You don't want an electrician working on your house who knows little or no electrical theory (Ohms Law and whatnot).

I don't want to play with musicians who know little or no theory.

So Pino Palladino doesn't get to work with you?

 

[Droopy_TX]

So Pino Palladino doesn't get to work with you?

I think this an overused citation, and an invalid excuse for not needing theory.
Pino never said he didn't know theory; he said he doesn't read music.

Neither do I.

But I know from theory that a Bmaj7 is made using the notes B-D#-F#-A#.
Is this a Bmaj7?

Maybe...

 

[stringtapper]

So Pino Palladino doesn't get to work with you?

Pino can't read music. That's not the same thing as not knowing any theory.

 

[stringtapper]

In fact, Joe Hubbard tells a story about Pino coming to him to take lessons at one point because he was bothered that he didn't fully understand the things he himself was playing.

 

[stringtapper]

Is this a Bmaj7?
View attachment 3658793

Maybe...

G#m7 in first inversion.

Or is it a Bmaj6…?

 

[SteveCS]

I think this an overused citation, and an invalid excuse for not needing theory.
Pino never said he didn't know theory; he said he doesn't read music.

Neither do I.

But I know from theory that a Bmaj7 is made using the notes B-D#-F#-A#.
Is this a Bmaj7?
View attachment 3658793

Maybe...

Looks like G#m7 in first inversion to me.

 

[devnulljp]

At no point will knowing theory ever be a hindrance. The same can't be said for the opposite.
You might be able to get by without a lick of theory, and many rock musicians have done fine for themselves like that, but I really don't get the resistance to learning (or why some people seem to be so proud that they don't know any theory). I don't see how you can play for more than a year or two without at least accidentally pick up some theory. You most likely will at least learn note names and that some of them are related in some way. And you generally have to know how to figure out what key you're in.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I can't remember who has it but on here I have seen

" No such as things as wrong notes, just passing notes"

• There’s no such thing as a wrong note. - Art Tatum
• There are no wrong notes in jazz: only notes in the wrong places. -Miles Davis
• It's not the note you play that's the wrong note - it's the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong. - Miles Davis
• To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. -Joseph Chilton Pearce
• There are no mistakes in jazz - you are always a semitone from salvation! - church joke
• There are no wrong notes; some are just more right than others. – Thelonius Monk
• “Do not fear mistakes. There are none. - Miles Davis
• "There are no wrong notes, only wrong resolutions" "I think of all harmony as an expansion and a return to the tonic."— Bill Evans
• There are no wrong notes on the piano, just better choices.—Thelonious Monk
• I played the wrong, wrong notes.—Thelonious Monk

 

[LBS-bass]

• There’s no such thing as a wrong note. - Art Tatum
• There are no wrong notes in jazz: only notes in the wrong places. -Miles Davis
• It's not the note you play that's the wrong note - it's the note you play afterwards that makes it right or wrong. - Miles Davis
• To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. -Joseph Chilton Pearce
• There are no mistakes in jazz - you are always a semitone from salvation! - church joke
• There are no wrong notes; some are just more right than others. – Thelonius Monk
• “Do not fear mistakes. There are none. - Miles Davis
• "There are no wrong notes, only wrong resolutions" "I think of all harmony as an expansion and a return to the tonic."— Bill Evans
• There are no wrong notes on the piano, just better choices.—Thelonious Monk
• I played the wrong, wrong notes.—Thelonious Monk

Miles sure had a lot to say about nothing being wrong, considering how grumpy he got with his players sometimes

 

[5StringBlues]

More than it needs me.

 

[Droopy_TX]

G#m7 in first inversion.

Or is it a Bmaj6…?

Key of B Major, Emaj7 1st inversion

(Logic Pro X is not the greatest score editor. The key signature is kinda wonky.)

 

[byacey]

It's possible to make more than one point in any given conversation. I sense some hostility in that comment. I was really just having some discussion here. Sorry if it bothers you.

No, no hostility. I was just wondering where you were going with this discussion.

 

[LBS-bass]

No, no hostility. I was just wondering where you were going with this discussion.

Thanks for clearing that up. I appreciate it!

 

[byacey]

And as usual, i agree with much of what you're saying here. I've been deliberately and obtusely splitting a few hairs here to try to illustrate a point, which is that we all use theory to some degree, even when we don't realize we're using it. My friend instinctively knows that certain chord progressions don't work and others do, but he doesn't know why. He's not really literate, but he has a good grasp of practical application.

People often ask the question about theory when what they really mean is "do we need formal or advanced music education?" And I wish I had more formal education than I do, so I would say yes, it's helpful. It's not always needed in order to be creative, but I don't know that it's ever hurt someone who had a creative instinct.

And now I'm going to go and ENJOY my practice because i have a show tomorrow and another one on Friday. Ciao.

There are examples of illiterate musicians doing great things. As an example, read the story about the Los Indios Tabajaras, a couple of native children living isolated in the Brazilian jungle who happen to find a guitar, and then proceeding to teach themselves to play it.
Los Indios Tabajaras - Wikipedia

I have strong doubts that they taught themselves to play as well as they do without any outside instruction or theory.

I am mostly self taught, but fortunately I had a couple of mentors that are great guitarists, one in the jazz idiom, and the other classical guitar. They opened my eyes to musical possibilities and appreciation through getting to know some theory. Now, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know, prompting me to want work harder, and smarter.

Some of the best musicians I know are musically literate, but they don't rely on notation to play.

 

[DJ Bebop]

There are examples of illiterate musicians doing great things. As an example, read the story about the Los Indios Tabajaras, a couple of native children living isolated in the Brazilian jungle who happen to find a guitar, and then proceeding to teach themselves to play it.
Los Indios Tabajaras - Wikipedia

I have strong doubts that they taught themselves to play as well as they do without any outside instruction or theory.

I am mostly self taught, but fortunately I had a couple of mentors that are great guitarists, one in the jazz idiom, and the other classical guitar. They opened my eyes to musical possibilities and appreciation through getting to know some theory. Now, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know, prompting me to want work harder, and smarter.

Some of the best musicians I know are musically literate, but they don't rely on notation to play.

I almost forgot about these lads:

Did the Beatles Know How to Read Music?

The Beatles never did learn to read or write music using traditional notation, and by all accounts were happy with that fact. Music was a discovery process for them that did not involve any books -- they once traveled across town for someone to teach them a B7 guitar chord. John Lennon's mother taught him banjo chords; they lasted with him through his early Quarry Men days until Paul McCartney showed him proper guitar chords. George Harrison learned guitar through lessons and painstaking practice. To acquire new material for concerts (mostly cover songs in the early days), they learned largely through listening to records and mimicking the sounds as closely as they could.

In The Life Of...The Beatles: Did the Beatles Know How to Read Music?

 

[stringtapper]

Key of B Major, Emaj7 1st inversion

(Logic Pro X is not the greatest score editor. The key signature is kinda wonky.)

I don’t see an E in that chord. Are you getting your clefs crossed midstream? (it happens)

 

[IamGroot]

You can learn by discovery .... or you can learn by method, which may be faster. Or do both.

If you can play jazz by ear, thats a real talent. Having some theory will definitely speed learning jazz if you werent born with the gift.

 

[Colin Cunliffe]

I almost forgot about these lads:
View attachment 3659022

Did the Beatles Know How to Read Music?

The Beatles never did learn to read or write music using traditional notation, and by all accounts were happy with that fact. Music was a discovery process for them that did not involve any books -- they once traveled across town for someone to teach them a B7 guitar chord. John Lennon's mother taught him banjo chords; they lasted with him through his early Quarry Men days until Paul McCartney showed him proper guitar chords. George Harrison learned guitar through lessons and painstaking practice. To acquire new material for concerts (mostly cover songs in the early days), they learned largely through listening to records and mimicking the sounds as closely as they could.

In The Life Of...The Beatles: Did the Beatles Know How to Read Music?

If I had George Martin in my corner I wouldnt read music either. Who knows what the course of their musical career would have been without GM there.

On a separate subject fwiw imo the real talent was JOHN. (Hows that for a grenade in a conversation)

 

[DrMole]

If I had George Martin in my corner I wouldnt read music either. Who knows what the course of their musical career would have been without GM there.

On a separate subject fwiw imo the real talent was JOHN. (Hows that for a grenade in a conversation)

The real talent was ALL of them, together at that time, that place.
I used to be a Paul fanatic- still am- but for the last 20 years, and likely through my last breath; George is the Man.
John is undeniable in imagination, talent, singing, writing- but change out any individual for a more " talented" or virtuoso player and you lose what made the Beatles what they were, are and shall always be.