You can get by without knowing theory, but why? You can learn the basics via YouTube videos or a few lessons. There is literally no situation where knowing some theory will be a disadvantage.
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Do you need music theory?
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Not sure I understand this, don't know who Bobby Vega is, and the only jazz I ever played are standards
. By ear. I couldn't sit in with a jazz band without looking like a fool - but never wanted to do that.I never studied theory, but i know the notes (most of them) on my bass neck and can scribble cheat notes when necessary. I was never in a situation that required me to read from charts.
I also wish I knew theory. Not saying it's a bad thing. I'd probably not have to work nearly as hard as I have to have some success if I DID thoroughly understand it.
I just worked ridiculously hours and honed some other skills in order to accomplish the things I have. I still work ridiculously hard. But I love it.
I use theory a lot in my playing and writting, so yes I need it.
That's BS, there's a tone of great musicians who know no theory.
That's BS, there's a tone of great musicians who know no theory.
I think a better analogy is:
Music Theory : PlayingMusic::Cooking:Eating
You don't have to know how to cook to eat, but the more you know about cooking the more you can eat.
Likewise, you can play music without knowing theory, but knowing theory might make it easier to learn songs or make up new songs.
Seems like we JUST had a thread on this.
Theory is to music as grammar is to language. Everybody - EVERYBODY - who speaks a language uses its grammar. Some are conscious of the grammar they're using, and the study of grammar can help you speak and write in a more articulate and sophisticated fashion. Most people just talk because they've absorbed some basic grammar in their mother tongue by imitation, as children, and don't think much about why they talk the way they do. But if I say, "I threw she the ball," even someone who never studied or thinks about grammar knows it sounds wrong.
In the same way, theory applies to ALL music, whether you're aware of it or not. A lot of music can be played just fine without being consciously aware of its theoretical aspect. But if you break the patterns of the rules of theory (a note out of key, the wrong number of beats in a measure, etc.) people will notice it sounds off. You can be more conscious of why you're playing what you are and how to do it in a more articulate and sophisticated manner if you understand the theory that undergirds it.
Probably the least constructive response on the thread, and that's phrasing my reaction as generously and politely as I can.
Theory is to music as grammar is to language. Everybody - EVERYBODY - who speaks a language uses its grammar. Some are conscious of the grammar they're using, and the study of grammar can help you speak and write in a more articulate and sophisticated fashion. Most people just talk because they've absorbed some basic grammar in their mother tongue by imitation, as children, and don't think much about why they talk the way they do. But if I say, "I threw she the ball," even someone who never studied or thinks about grammar knows it sounds wrong.
In the same way, theory applies to ALL music, whether you're aware of it or not. A lot of music can be played just fine without being consciously aware of its theoretical aspect. But if you break the patterns of the rules of theory (a note out of key, the wrong number of beats in a measure, etc.) people will notice it sounds off. You can be more conscious of why you're playing what you are and how to do it in a more articulate and sophisticated manner if you understand the theory that undergirds it.
Probably the least constructive response on the thread, and that's phrasing my reaction as generously and politely as I can.
It is kind of impossible to play the bass without theory. Even when you never learned any.
The guitar plays a G and you play a G, followed by F#. It sounds bad.
The guitar plays G again and you play G, followed by D. It sounds better.
You remember that and when you run across the next G, you go with what you learned earlier and omit the F#.
You just applied theory. It's your own, crude version, but theory nonetheless.
The guitar plays a G and you play a G, followed by F#. It sounds bad.
The guitar plays G again and you play G, followed by D. It sounds better.
You remember that and when you run across the next G, you go with what you learned earlier and omit the F#.
You just applied theory. It's your own, crude version, but theory nonetheless.
Sorry Joe, I don't buy that
You have learned a ton of theory having played up to the level you are at. I have heard a few of your clips. You are really good, your band also very good.You may not know what a music major would consider formal theory but you recognize harmony, intervals, chords, timing, subdivisions and apply that to your playing.That is music theory.
You may not call any of those things by those names and not write or read music(don't know) but you know a LOT of theory. Regardless if you ever choose to pursue more, keep playing what you are playing!
This question comes up a lot on here. You’ll get two camps replying:
The ones who know music theory are convinced it’s indispensable.
Those who have gotten along just fine without it are convinced it’s not all that valuable.
The real answer? depends on who you want to hang and play with.
Music theory is an in between thing. If you want to work with things that threaten your life, from electricity to nuclear power, knowing the theory behind what’s going on is crucial. Music is different - you won’t die, you’ll just play a wrong note. You might, in some cases, lose a gig. Only you can decide if it’s worth the time investment; that depends on where you want to go with music.
The ones who know music theory are convinced it’s indispensable.
Those who have gotten along just fine without it are convinced it’s not all that valuable.
The real answer? depends on who you want to hang and play with.
Music theory is an in between thing. If you want to work with things that threaten your life, from electricity to nuclear power, knowing the theory behind what’s going on is crucial. Music is different - you won’t die, you’ll just play a wrong note. You might, in some cases, lose a gig. Only you can decide if it’s worth the time investment; that depends on where you want to go with music.
I think this is a useful way of viewing it. But knowing how to play intuitively is not synonymous with knowing music theory. You can do something well without knowing why you do it. In other words, you are not really using theory. Because of this, if you play intuitively you are only prepared to deal with circumstances you have previously experienced and understand. For example, when I play complicated new chord changes my ear may not know what to do. However since I know a bit of theory, I can analyze the chords to derive how the key center changes as I move through the progression, and this tells me what notes are correct. Overtime as I practice, I learn the sound of the progression intuitively by ear and no longer have to rely so heavily on theory.
I view music theory as musical metadata. Here's my logic: Metadata is defined as a set of data that describes and gives information about other data. Likewise, music theory describes and gives information about music.
Why wouldn’t someone who plays music want to learn more about what they do. It’s onevthing
So true. Why wouldn’t a musician want to know more about why they do what they do. ie: Imagine not knowing the circle of 5ths.
No you don’t need it. But.....the more I learn the more it gets easier. (I am old, but still want to try to learn one thing every day) Everything just makes more sense. Not just random notes and riffs, but easy logical stuff.
...But of course, it's not a divisive question.
It's the same as "Do you need to know Slap?" or "Should I learn how to play with the pick?", etc...
(Usually, it leads only to "Thread Status:Not open for further replies."
Just to start...
Face it, you don't really want to learn theory. And that's Ok.
My views on music theory
A few posters have hinted at this, and I remember posting to @Joe Nerve in a thread like this a year or two ago. @hrodbert696 ’s post alluded to this idea. Let me see if I can articulate it.
There is extrinsic knowledge and intrinsic knowledge. A good player, like Mr. Nerve, who feels “they don’t know theory”, has actually accumulated a body of intrinsic knowledge of music theory, as someone else posted, around building strong bass lines, solid timing, and adding interest and movement to the bass line, choosing good notes, etc.
What they don’t know is the terminology for all of these ideas, the nomenclature, nor a cohesive framework within which to place the knowledge. It is simply a “this works, that might work” and an empirical approach that evaluates things on how they sound. This ability to judge music and know what to change to make it better is a deep skill obtained through repitition over years.
Someone who has studied music theory has an extrinsic knowledge of it. They know the nomenclature and are aware of various frameworks within which various concepts might be more or less applicable. But I’ve seen this with my students over and over: they still need to play the examples, to develop the critical listening skills, and develop their own taste about what works when and when it doesn’t. If you go to music school you put the time in actually learning the theory on the bandstand, in lab, and in your pick up gigs.
So a long way of saying if you play well, you know theory. But you may not be able to express your knowledge verbally, and when others talk in theoretical terms you may not understand what they are saying, but when shown you realize that you do understand. The understanding might be remembering a song that used the same rhythmic or harmonic structure, but you know how to play it from there.
So the question might be better posed as do you use formal music theory in your playing. Do you use harmonic analysis, do you feel you could not function without being able to write or read a chord chart, etc.
There is extrinsic knowledge and intrinsic knowledge. A good player, like Mr. Nerve, who feels “they don’t know theory”, has actually accumulated a body of intrinsic knowledge of music theory, as someone else posted, around building strong bass lines, solid timing, and adding interest and movement to the bass line, choosing good notes, etc.
What they don’t know is the terminology for all of these ideas, the nomenclature, nor a cohesive framework within which to place the knowledge. It is simply a “this works, that might work” and an empirical approach that evaluates things on how they sound. This ability to judge music and know what to change to make it better is a deep skill obtained through repitition over years.
Someone who has studied music theory has an extrinsic knowledge of it. They know the nomenclature and are aware of various frameworks within which various concepts might be more or less applicable. But I’ve seen this with my students over and over: they still need to play the examples, to develop the critical listening skills, and develop their own taste about what works when and when it doesn’t. If you go to music school you put the time in actually learning the theory on the bandstand, in lab, and in your pick up gigs.
So a long way of saying if you play well, you know theory. But you may not be able to express your knowledge verbally, and when others talk in theoretical terms you may not understand what they are saying, but when shown you realize that you do understand. The understanding might be remembering a song that used the same rhythmic or harmonic structure, but you know how to play it from there.
So the question might be better posed as do you use formal music theory in your playing. Do you use harmonic analysis, do you feel you could not function without being able to write or read a chord chart, etc.
In my case, music theory allowed me to pursue a higher quality gig and actually make a decent living. Music theory was basically a job requirement.
I played in cover bands and big bands before I learned music theory. It was a lot easier to do the job after I learned music theory, and I was a lot better at it.
Impossible to play music at even just a decent level of competence and not simply absorb some theory, just by osmosis. If you mean being able to read notation, then no, you don't "need" that specific part of "theory" necessarily.
You're firmly in the first camp. Nothing wrong with that.
