Do you or Beck support OWS?

[JimmyM]

'Perhaps if these protestors were the same they would be making money instead of complaining about "the banks".'

Perhaps if we were a better informed populace we wouldn't have let these greedy bastards steal our Democracy out from under us? dsanders, do your kids and the rest of us a favor and read the attached article.

'The lesson is clear: Democracy doesn’t begin at the top; it begins at the bottom, when flesh-and-blood human beings fight to rekindle what Arlo Guthrie calls “The Patriot’s Dream.”'

I agree. But while the OWS movement does get press, there's way more of a vibe of "This is a place to hang" rather than "This is a place to make change." The real change has to come from inside the system. It's like Devo said...if you want to subvert the system, subvert it from within.

 

[plasson]

It's like Devo said...if you want to subvert the system, subvert it from within.

I believe that was Heisenberg.

 

[Dan Bozek]

I believe that was Heisenberg.

The dude from Breaking Bad? :^D

 

[Subversiva]

@Jimmy M

'...there's way more of a vibe of "This is a place to hang" rather than "This is a place to make change." The real change has to come from inside the system.'

Have you been to every Occupy site all over the world? How do you know what is and is not happening? When I was at OLA there were classes and political discussions taking place. People were being fed and engaged. We are the system. For the people by the people. Remember?

But yes, we have to do more than talk about change, we have to implement it. Occupy has also resulted in people ditching the Banks and Voting! Lots happened yesterday. Occupy is subverting the Oligarchy with information and action. Did you read the article I attached?

 

[dsanders]

People who have been laid off and cannot find work are making time to demonstrate against the Bankers all over the world.

Where did you hear about the STD treatment? Fox News? Have a link?

'Perhaps if these protestors (sic) were the same they would be making money instead of complaining about "the banks".' Oy vey. There are no jobs mijo. Ever heard of Budget Cuts? Hard, excellent workers are being laid off left and right through no fault of their own. Need links?

Congratulations on being so employable. But for those of us who are out of work
the only companies hiring now are Walmart and McDonalds. Jobs in our Service Economy do not pay a living wage. You cannot deny that the 1% is robbing the rest of us blind. Now, instead of paying taxes, they want to cut Social Security and Medicare. This is warfare.

And JimmyM, damn straight OWS got BofA to drop the $5 fee. Those fleeing customers didn't move to other banks they moved to Credit Unions.

You want goals?

"LIST OF PROPOSED DEMANDS"
Forum Post: DETAILED LIST OF DEMANDS & OVERVIEW OF TACTICS FOR DC PROTEST (compiled from suggestions made in this forum) -- Please suggest additions or edits so I can propose this list to those keeping the official one. | OccupyWallSt.org

Just noticed your reply been a crazy week. That's not a "I'm working" slight it's been busy. I actually don't watch Fox News, not that I likely wouldn't agree with their coverage I just don't make time for TV. Over the weekend I'll post a few things to legitimize my opinion.

As for the availability of quality jobs...if there aren't any where you are then move. You telling me that's difficult is obvious. But I've done it, moved to find better work.

If you need a job go elsewhere. Where I live quality jobs are bountiful in multiple industries. We are not the only city where that is the case.

What it comes down to is this: hardworking, positive people who are not afraid of doing what it takes will be working. There is no exception except where and individual considers themselves above a certain type of job. Again the "there are no quality jobs here" argument is very valid. Then move where you can get the type of work you love.

 

[JimmyM]

@Jimmy M

'...there's way more of a vibe of "This is a place to hang" rather than "This is a place to make change." The real change has to come from inside the system.'

Have you been to every Occupy site all over the world? How do you know what is and is not happening? When I was at OLA there were classes and political discussions taking place. People were being fed and engaged. We are the system. For the people by the people. Remember?

But yes, we have to do more than talk about change, we have to implement it. Occupy has also resulted in people ditching the Banks and Voting! Lots happened yesterday. Occupy is subverting the Oligarchy with information and action. Did you read the article I attached?

Nah, I believe you

 

[dsanders]

'Perhaps if these protestors were the same they would be making money instead of complaining about "the banks".'

Perhaps if we were a better informed populace we wouldn't have let these greedy bastards steal our Democracy out from under us? dsanders, do your kids and the rest of us a favor and read the attached article.

'The lesson is clear: Democracy doesn't begin at the top; it begins at the bottom, when flesh-and-blood human beings fight to rekindle what Arlo Guthrie calls "The Patriot's Dream."'

from:
How Wall Street Occupied America
Bill Moyers November 2, 2011 | This article appeared in the November 21, 2011 edition of The Nation.
Invalid Link Removed

And Justin, I've always wanted to know... Do you and Beck like Arlo Guthrie?

I appreciate the article. I'm happy to say I've done all of TB, myself, and my family a favor by taking your advice and reading it.

Here is how I feel about the subject. I am responsible for my family and our well being. Banks do not control my life, my actions, or my level of success. I do.

The Government also does not effect my level of success. At times it threatens to. If I ever come to believe that my ability to succeed based solely off my own efforts becomes impossible here in the US, I will move my family somewhere that rewards my efforts.

I believe in personal responsibility. I doubt that the majority of OWS "protestors" would agree.

 

[smeet]

Change from within the system isn't going to work. Neither is coming up with a viable candidate to represent the movement. The system is corrupt at its core, and the big corporations own the government, regardless of party. More radical change needs to happen, and this movement is trying to spread the awareness. The two overriding concerns are: We need to get the money out of politics, and we need fix the huge and growing inequality between the poor and the wealthy.

Your pride in your personal ability to succeed is deserved, even admirable. The next generation won't find it so easy to be so self-assured. Yes, VERY hard work can keep you afloat. But Americans shouldn't (and didn't always) need to work that hard just to stay afloat. Upward mobility is now substantially greater in many European and Asian countries than in America. It wasn't always this way, but the trend is clear.

You can scoff at this but your children probably won't be able to. I also have a great job. I do digital special effects for big-budget movies. I used to think all I had to do was work hard and be great at what I did. But like most other industries in this country, it's getting scaled down, outsourced, and automated. Sooner or later most of us won't have GOOD jobs unless we completely change the way this country is run.

 

[anonymous122511]

When I was at OLA there were classes and political discussions taking place. People were being fed and engaged.

Fed by whom? George Soros?

 

[Floyd Eye]

People who have been laid off and cannot find work are making time to demonstrate against the Bankers all over the world.

Where did you hear about the STD treatment? Fox News? Have a link?

'Perhaps if these protestors (sic) were the same they would be making money instead of complaining about "the banks".' Oy vey. There are no jobs mijo. Ever heard of Budget Cuts? Hard, excellent workers are being laid off left and right through no fault of their own. Need links?

Congratulations on being so employable. But for those of us who are out of work
the only companies hiring now are Walmart and McDonalds. Jobs in our Service Economy do not pay a living wage. You cannot deny that the 1% is robbing the rest of us blind. Now, instead of paying taxes, they want to cut Social Security and Medicare. This is warfare.

And JimmyM, damn straight OWS got BofA to drop the $5 fee. Those fleeing customers didn't move to other banks they moved to Credit Unions.

You want goals?

"LIST OF PROPOSED DEMANDS"
Forum Post: DETAILED LIST OF DEMANDS & OVERVIEW OF TACTICS FOR DC PROTEST (compiled from suggestions made in this forum) -- Please suggest additions or edits so I can propose this list to those keeping the official one. | OccupyWallSt.org

My cousin just got out of prison after a 22 year bit last month. He already has a job making $10 an hour and it ain't at McDonalds or Walmart. There is work but you have to go and get it. The problem with the OWS movement ( and all their Ipads and smart phones) is that they have been spoiled for too long, having everything handed to them and they have forgotten that to get ahead in this world YOU have to go out and get your piece of the pie. The whole entitlement mindset is ridiculous. It is not my responsibility or Wall streets responsibility to give you a free education or a high paying job that you aren't qualified for.

Oh well, it will be cold as hell here in a month or so and all the protesters will go back to their parent's basements.






By the way, OWS had nothing to do with B of A dropping those fees. The other banks that publicly stated that they wouldn't be charging those fees might have though. Not to mention you are missing the point. The whole reason why banks are looking to make up revenue is because the new reform laws are costing them money and as is the case with ANY capitalist system, the cost is passed on to the consumer.

 

[Schlyder]

.... Yes, VERY hard work can keep you afloat. But Americans shouldn't (and didn't always) need to work that hard just to stay afloat.......

What? What about all the pioneers who opened the west?
What about all the people who struggled through the Great Depression in the 1930s?? They had to bust their a**es just to survive.
What makes you think present day Americans shouldn't have to work that hard just to keep afloat?

 

[GypsyMan]

Fed by whom? George Soros?

By private donation, It's not that big bad G. Soros or the food would be better.

Just for the record, I'm not a part of OWS.

 

[smeet]

What? What about all the pioneers who opened the west?
What about all the people who struggled through the Great Depression in the 1930s?? They had to bust their a**es just to survive.
What makes you think present day Americans shouldn't have to work that hard just to keep afloat?

The pioneers did not have the technological means to provide everybody in the country with adequate and high quality food, shelter, clothing, and medical care. We do. The reason people don't have this is that almost all of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few people.

All those generations of people slaved and killed themselves so their descendants could have a chance at better lives. Do you think they would be happy if they saw the state of the country and the populace now?

Nobody can predict the future, but it seems to me we are on a very bad path, and the "Occupy" movement (a crappy name, I would prefer the term "99%") is the one bright spot in the past many years.

To clarify, I don't think this particular movement has all the answers. It will probably get co-opted and corrupted just like the tea party and most other grass-roots efforts. But there will be another movement, and another. Eventually the message will get through. Or it won't and then humanity deserves whatever it gets.

 

[Subversiva]

No, fed with donations from local individuals and restaurants.

 

[Subversiva]

The cost does not have to be passed on to the consumer. Don't believe the hype. The Banksters could simply make LESS PROFIT. Why should people have to move all over the country to find a job. Why can't rich people and rich corporations just pay taxes?!

 

[Subversiva]

Americans DO work hard. But that is not enough to get by in a Service Economy. Minimum wage is not enough money to live on in any city in the U.S.. There are enough resources for everyone but the Banksters are robbing us blind. The United States is the only industrialized nation in the entire world who does not offer universal Healthcare and Higher Education. Stop defending the 1%. They aren't doing the same for you.

 

[smeet]

The cost does not have to be passed on to the consumer. Don't believe the hype. The Banksters could simply make LESS PROFIT. Why should people have to move all over the country to find a job. Why can't rich people and rich corporations just pay taxes?!

They don't need to, so they don't. Our system currently allows large corporations to contribute huge amounts of money to electing officials who they then own (this goes all the way up to the president), and to pay lobbyists huge sums. Both of these facts mean that corporations (and rich people through their coporations) can pass laws that favor the rich minority rather than the majority. Take the money out of politics and this goes away.

 

[Subversiva]

As far as, "they have been spoiled for too long, having everything handed to them and they have forgotten that to get ahead in this world YOU have to go out and get your piece of the pie. The whole entitlement mindset is ridiculous. It is not my responsibility or Wall streets responsibility to give you a free education or a high paying job that you aren't qualified for", yours is an apt description of the top 1%.

Read this:

Banker Bonuses Fall Thanks to Government Regulation | Care2 Causes

 

[Subversiva]

They don't need to, so they don't. Our system currently allows large corporations to contribute huge amounts of money to electing officials who they then own (this goes all the way up to the president), and to pay lobbyists huge sums. Both of these facts mean that corporations (and rich people through their coporations) can pass laws that favor the rich minority rather than the majority. Take the money out of politics and this goes away.

;-)

 

[lowfreqgeek]