• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Do you or Beck support OWS?

Status
Not open for further replies.
What, specifically, is a "living wage"? Honest question. Who determines what is appropriate and acceptable in terms of wages?

Maybe all those demanding a "living wage" should learn to live within their means? I make a fair wage and I don't waste money on a cell phone or data plan (no iPhone for me!); I don't make car payments because I drive and maintain old cars; I don't eat out; I don't go to many movies. I live within the means I have.

Imagine the freedom I have!!!
 
If so, did you hear about this?

'--A group called Beings Beings has raised over $1,600 to distribute 10,000 harmonicas at Zuccotti Park today. From the project's Kickstarter page: "What we're suggesting is to equip the entire movement with harmonicas. By breathing slowly through these harmonicas, the historic instrument of the underclass in America, the audible qualities of both the individual and the whole will become a call used for marches, demonstrations, and sit-ins. As thousands of people step together and breathe together, the sound that we emit will be impossible to ignore or argue, because it lacks words that can be skewed or manipulated."'

By Lauren Kelley | Sourced from AlterNet
Posted at November 5, 2011, 9:45 am

This is awesome!

However, I have a feeling this thread will go in a massive downward spiral... I like this site being mostly free of political discussion, I get enough of that everywhere else. Everyone is so much nicer to each other without it! :rolleyes::p
 
The Constitution and Bill of Rights don't say that. Those documents also don't say that Women or Black people have the right to vote in this country. Was it wrong for U.S. citizens to fight for Women's Equality and an end to slavery?

Subsequent to the creation of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, progressive leaders like, Abraham Lincoln, F.D.R., J.F.K., R.F.K., and L.B.J have taken actions to ensure true equality in this country.

The Occupy Movement are all leaders and WE SAY that working people deserve to make a living wage. Why are these ideas so offensive to you? Have you looked at the pie chart of wealth distribution since the 1970s? Have you?

You aren't leaders. You're whiners. Leaders take an active role in improving their lives and the lives of others. OWS whiners spend their days in donated tents, eating donated food, posting to web forums, looking for handouts.
 
This is awesome!

However, I have a feeling this thread will go in a massive downward spiral... I like this site being mostly free of political discussion, I get enough of that everywhere else. Everyone is so much nicer to each other without it! :rolleyes::p


That is exactly why TB has rules about political and religious discussion. TB is a *private* institution, and is thus allowed to have such rules. Subversiva certainly won't understand or respect that; she's entitled to do whatever the heck she wants - and by golly, she's gonna demand it!

This discussion is happening in a un-moderated subforum, and thus in a loop-hole of TB rules. Justin can squash it if he likes, but he's not exactly watching every move with an eye toward the greater TB forum rules.

So, out of respect for TB's rules and Justin's forum, I will pull out now.
 
That is exactly why TB has rules about political and religious discussion. TB is a *private* institution, and is thus allowed to have such rules. Subversiva certainly won't understand or respect that; she's entitled to do whatever the heck she wants - and by golly, she's gonna demand it!

This discussion is happening in a un-moderated subforum, and thus in a loop-hole of TB rules. Justin can squash it if he likes, but he's not exactly watching every move with an eye toward the greater TB forum rules.

So, out of respect for TB's rules and Justin's forum, I will pull out now.

+1 Like they say, Ignore the troll
 
@Jimmy M

'...there's way more of a vibe of "This is a place to hang" rather than "This is a place to make change." The real change has to come from inside the system.'

Have you been to every Occupy site all over the world? How do you know what is and is not happening? When I was at OLA there were classes and political discussions taking place. People were being fed and engaged. We are the system. For the people by the people. Remember?

But yes, we have to do more than talk about change, we have to implement it. Occupy has also resulted in people ditching the Banks and Voting! Lots happened yesterday. Occupy is subverting the Oligarchy with information and action. Did you read the article I attached?


Bet you all had your Macs there too. Starbucks in hand; Macs on lap.


You see, this is what I don't understand - as a VERY independent (ideologically a Libertarian Socialist) doesn't understand about OWS. These people piss and moan about the corporations but they are so corporate-minded it's unreal. Target, Wal-Mart, Apple, Canon, Nikon, and Starbucks for example are some conglomerates most of these people probably hug like a teddy bear.

Instead of standing out there, USE YOUR POWER AS A CONSUMER. When I see you go from your OWS rally to the Apple store to upgrade your Iphone I want to slap you upside your head. Those people aren't fighting for change; they're wasting our time and money.


As political I am, I don't like bringing it around these parts and forums in general. But geez, can't people get a friggin' clue? And it's on both sides. Conservatives crying about the economy, Liberals crying about the economy...and NOBODY wants to make the cultural or social changes to make it happen. A bunch of greedy whiny entitled brats all over the spectrum, all over the country.
 
What, specifically, is a "living wage"? Honest question. Who determines what is appropriate and acceptable in terms of wages?

Maybe all those demanding a "living wage" should learn to live within their means? I make a fair wage and I don't waste money on a cell phone or data plan (no iPhone for me!); I don't make car payments because I drive and maintain old cars; I don't eat out; I don't go to many movies. I live within the means I have.

Imagine the freedom I have!!!
Thank you for asking, here is a living wage calculator:

Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

As far as trolling goes, I started this thread by asking JMJ a question involving himself, Beck and harmonicas. JMJ supports OWS and musical contributions made by the 99%.

If any of you are offended by the non-bass nature of this thread then perhaps you should stop contributing to it?
 
Bet you all had your Macs there too. Starbucks in hand; Macs on lap.


You see, this is what I don't understand - as a VERY independent (ideologically a Libertarian Socialist) doesn't understand about OWS. These people piss and moan about the corporations but they are so corporate-minded it's unreal. Target, Wal-Mart, Apple, Canon, Nikon, and Starbucks for example are some conglomerates most of these people probably hug like a teddy bear.

Instead of standing out there, USE YOUR POWER AS A CONSUMER. When I see you go from your OWS rally to the Apple store to upgrade your Iphone I want to slap you upside your head. Those people aren't fighting for change; they're wasting our time and money.


As political I am, I don't like bringing it around these parts and forums in general. But geez, can't people get a friggin' clue? And it's on both sides. Conservatives crying about the economy, Liberals crying about the economy...and NOBODY wants to make the cultural or social changes to make it happen. A bunch of greedy whiny entitled brats all over the spectrum, all over the country.
I didn't see anyone with any of those corporate products at OLA. "These people piss and moan about the corporations but they are so corporate-minded it's unreal." What evidence to you have that many Occupiers are this way?

The food people were eating was donated from local restaurants. I didn't encounter any Yuppies but rather quite a few homeless folks. And as far as OWS not challenging Corporate America, have you seen the multitude of YouTube clips of Occupiers trying to close their bank accounts? Have you read any of the articles I've posted?
 
I didn't see anyone with any of those corporate products at OLA. "These people piss and moan about the corporations but they are so corporate-minded it's unreal." What evidence to you have that many Occupiers are this way?

The food people were eating was donated from local restaurants. I didn't encounter any Yuppies but rather quite a few homeless folks. And as far as OWS not challenging Corporate America, have you seen the multitude of YouTube clips of Occupiers trying to close their bank accounts? Have you read any of the articles I've posted?

I have a friend who went to Occupy Oakland; he took pictures and photos of the riots on what I would assume to be a cell phone made by either a foreign conglomerate or a domestic one. Anyone who shoots a youtube video and posts it online is supporting the conglomerates they claim to want to abolish. Isn't that funny? The cell phone service industry is in oligopoly (did you see anyone texting/calling?), the cell phone manufacturers are close to an oligopoly, the computer manufacturers are oligopolies...and you're telling me nobody was using these. Give me a break.

You think Corporate America is just banks? You've proven my point already. Corporate America is any powerful company that can influence the politics or economics of a region, state, or nation. GE, Apple, the Koch Brothers, GM, Ford, Sears/K-Mart, various clothing manufacturers, Wal-Mart, Target, Pepsico, Coca-Cola, Microsoft, Conagra, Unilever, etc. are all in the same category as the banks you deride. And that's just to name a few. And if you deride one, you must deride them all.
 
I didn't see anyone with any of those corporate products at OLA. "These people piss and moan about the corporations but they are so corporate-minded it's unreal." What evidence to you have that many Occupiers are this way?

The food people were eating was donated from local restaurants. I didn't encounter any Yuppies but rather quite a few homeless folks. And as far as OWS not challenging Corporate America, have you seen the multitude of YouTube clips of Occupiers trying to close their bank accounts? Have you read any of the articles I've posted?

Don't worry, sweetie. There's an app for that....


Invalid Link Removed

I found that in about 30 seconds. You're there, and you don't see these things?
 
Don't worry, sweetie. There's an app for that....


Invalid Link Removed

I found that in about 30 seconds. You're there, and you don't see these things?
I didn't go through all the photos and I am not your sweetie. What do the pictures show?

I'm not there now but I visited last week. My cell phone is from Credo. Go to their website and check out their politics.

But in effect what you are saying is that anyone who has a cell phone from a conglomerate has no right to protest the Oligarchy? Really?

You might not know this but, in order to save money many people have cell phones not in addition to, but in lieu of, a land line. Homeless people benefit from cell phone access in particular.

Sure, lots of us inadvertently aid corporations with our consumerism. This is less hypocritical than it is a lack of information and choices. Part of the Occupy movement is to INFORM people as to our choices and means of non-violent resistance to Capitalism.

And no Corporate America is NOT just the Banks. It is also the Corporations who pay little or no taxes.
 
I'm dumbfounded at the naked hostility here toward the protesters. These are not the people who destroyed our economy. The people who did that are in those big buildings that the protestors are shouting at.

After ruining the economy, their companies got bailed out--using our money.

What'd we get? What'd we get when we lost our jobs and had our homes foreclosed on? Not much.

Then they gave themselves bonuses. With our money.

Then, when congress thought maybe perhaps we could put back some of the regulations that once prevented firms like thiers from ruining the economy, they said "whoa, unfair!"

"We're the job creators!" they said. And even though they have record profits again (like nothing happened!), and even though they have had their taxes and regulations cut for the last 30 years or so, it's apparently UNTHINKABLE that we might ask them for a little sacrifice.

So they want their corporate taxes cut yet again. And they want yet more tax cuts for the wealthiest earners. And they threaten that if they don't get them, we'll get no jobs.

Meanwhile there are, what, 7 applications for every open position in America? It's still, what, around 9% unemployment? Not even counting the underemployed and those who have just given up?

All this is going on… and all you can think to say to the people protesting in the street is "get a job"? Seriously?

I look at my kids and I seriously think maybe I should advise them to repatriate somewhere else. This country has lost its ability to see reality and deal with problems in a fact-based way. I don't want to see them work hard and get nowhere while the 1% makes off with their dreams.
 
As a bassist and an occupy supporter, I feel I should butt in here. I'm quite surprised at the sentiment toward the protestors. Clearly many have not actually attended a demonstration

In reference to demographics, more occupy protestors have jobs than Tea Party protestors. Occupy protestors unemployment rate is slightly higher than national average--around 15%.

The notion that these people are ONLY camping out and twiddling their thumbs is nonsense. They're planning political action within their locals while going to work and otherwise living their lives.

28 percent of OWS protesters are over 40 - CSMonitor.com
 
I didn't go through all the photos and I am not your sweetie. What do the pictures show?

I'm not there now but I visited last week. My cell phone is from Credo. Go to their website and check out their politics.

But in effect what you are saying is that anyone who has a cell phone from a conglomerate has no right to protest the Oligarchy? Really?

You might not know this but, in order to save money many people have cell phones not in addition to, but in lieu of, a land line. Homeless people benefit from cell phone access in particular.

Sure, lots of us inadvertently aid corporations with our consumerism. This is less hypocritical than it is a lack of information and choices. Part of the Occupy movement is to INFORM people as to our choices and means of non-violent resistance to Capitalism.

And no Corporate America is NOT just the Banks. It is also the Corporations who pay little or no taxes.

Credo Mobile is a reselling service for Sprint. Aww...... you didn't understand that, did you?
 
I'm dumbfounded at the naked hostility here toward the protesters. These are not the people who destroyed our economy. The people who did that are in those big buildings that the protestors are shouting at.

This is the problem. Putting all of the blame on them is laughable.


It goes to show where we are as Americans:

we have all we need and are still poor;
we have all the wealth of information we can want and are ignorant;
we have all the freedom we could ever handle and yet we shackle ourselves daily.


You know what is killing this country? Consumer greed supporting Corporate greed.

Take a look at yourself and how you live; and in that way you can change the scheme. The American voting consumer is the most power individual in the world.


I laugh when I see people whining about how their wage is plummeting, their downtown is empty, their son can't find a job, and their daughter can't afford an education - when meanwhile, they waste money that could pay for their daughter's education (after convincing her that sitting in an office chair all day for a job is ok and that hard work isn't needed, just a piece of paper from a college); they shop at Wal-Mart, destroying their downtown and the job base, and then they turn and say 'IT'S THEIR FAULT!" Arrogant, conceited Americans.


The TRUE "Occupy Wall-Street" protester would be in his room, changing his ways and his children's ways, and saving his money and spending it locally. That's how your protest a Corporation.



Let me correct myself, personally. I am not hostile toward one political agenda. I am hostile toward ignorance and intentional blindness. I am also hostile towards greed - which transcends any demographic and political boundaries.
 
Credo Mobile is a reselling service for Sprint. Aww...... you didn't understand that, did you?
CREDO Mobile | Facebook
CREDO uses Sprint as our network provider, but we are independently owned & operated. CREDO's issue advocacy ... organizations are internal to CREDO Mobile only. (Sprint ...
CREDO Mobile | Facebook - Cached
 
Status
Not open for further replies.