Do you steal music???

[Wrong Robot]

Stealing is stealing is stealing,

Except when it's copyright violation.

 

[jazzbo]

You may want to check out downloading live music. There is much out there that can't be bought and it isn't all jam bands. It's fun to see what treasures you can dig up...like opening a present. Worth a look.

Yeah, but I don't listen to too much from newer bands, or much in the popular music genres. I love jazz, I buy jazz. And in jazz, you HAVE TO have the whole album. Those musicians played albums, not songs.

Every now and then a new artist comes out that I like, like say, Jack Johnson. I like Jack Johnson. I live in San Francisco, a 5 minute bus ride from Amoeba Records, probably the largest used record store outside of only, maybe NYC. I can get a record, one week after release, for half price. I get the liner notes, lyrics, good quality, etc.

I just don't see value in downloading music. Not at least for what I dig.

 

[Juneau]

Hey Jazzbo, you still might be suprised. Check out the archive.org site a couple of us have linked. They actually have some really good jazz. You might in fact check out Jacob Fred Jazz Oddessey. Or a lesser known band, Drop Trio. There are several of their live shows there, and who knows, you might find something new that floats your boat. And PS, they have 102 live Jack Johnson shows (its all legal btw - they even post the artists recording and trading policies)

And now back to your regularly scheduled programing...

 

[baba]

I live in San Francisco, a 5 minute bus ride from Amoeba Records, probably the largest used record store outside of only, maybe NYC. I can get a record, one week after release, for half price. I get the liner notes, lyrics, good quality, etc.
.

God, I miss Amoeba. I lived in SF for 10 years, Cole Valley, Upper Haight, Inner Richmond, and I miss it dearly. That and Toronado.

 

[lowendgod]

i used to download in the early days of napster and personal ftp's from friends BUT... i am somebody that loves the artwork and all of the other cool stuff that comes with a disc, so if i downloaded it and liked it i go purchase it immediatley. if not i deleted it, my thought is
((( The Artist Needs To Be Paid )))
if it is something i dont like i never would have bought it in the first place so there is no money lost...

 

[BassGod]

I download. Hell, if I hadn't started downloading, I would never have found out about so many bands that are now some of my favourites (Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Panter0a, many more). I buy CDs as well. Since the beggining of the year, I've probably bought about 15.

Graeme

EDIT: About seventeen, I bought two tonight.

 

[Steelrock]

i use limewire to learn a couple bass lines from the group but i eventually then buy the cd. I've been a fan of Dream Theater I've bought everyone of their cds, dvds, im plannin on a live show this year. i think it's all based on perspective. If your a fan of the band you'll buy their material regardless if you download or not. sometimes ive heard of cases of people downloading a dvd or an audio sample and then after they downloaded it they STILL went to go buy the cd or dvd.

I would never have found out about Jaco, I bought a couple of his cds, I will be buying the new Dream Theater CD, I plan on getting some more releases later this year.

 

[c-ba55]

I buy albums where I think the whole album will be good, and I will want to listen to it over and over again and really pay attention and enjoy the production quality and fidelity. For one-hit wonders, the last thing I need is their physical CD and 70 minutes of their crappy music. CD singles are too annoying to use or to store, and cost a phenomenal amount. Itunes has unacceptable Digital Rights Management, and 99 cents seems really high for an mp3. I am left with stealing as the only option. If I could buy (really buy...total rights of ownership) an mp3 for $0.25, I would do it. Or if there were volume discounts at least, I would do it. I would buy a lot of mp3s if it was set up more to my liking. Instead I buy none. Stealing is preferrable to getting ripped off.

 

[Brendan]

Hey Brendan,

Do you drink Pepsi? Own Levi's? Shop at Walmart/Target? Use Microsoft software? Been to the Gap? Eat at McDonald's? Visited a Starbucks? Shopped on Amazon.com?

I understand it's impossible to avoid all "big corporations," but if you're only avoiding the one, (record companies), and not making any effort to avoid the others, is that hypocritical?

Just asking.

No
No
No
Yes, looking into Linux full time after using Knoppix.
No
No
No
Once (The truth. Ordered Akira and Ghost in the Shell on VHS about, back when I was in 8 grade. Which would have been about 5 years ago).

And I'm not being a smart ass, that's the truth. I understand the practical impossibility of avoiding all major corporations (owning a car, needing insurance, all that jazz), but I try to remain as free of them as possible. Now, I shop at JC Penny, Publix (aka Safeway), Fred Meyer, and other large places, but, that's a function of affordability. Would I shop at nothing but botique mom and pop places if I could afford to? Yes.

But, yes, I do try to do my part as a consumer to tell all the wrong companies to bite me. I'm glad you understand it's impossible, but yeah, I do try to avoid them, all of them (or most of them, as the case may be).

 

[Brendan]

There is another side to this whole argument too. When you download music, you aren't really "stealing" per se. Instead, you are violating copyright, which is, an offense, to be sure, but it's not exactly stealing. The people that are hurt from downloading(with the exception of indie artists) are the record labels, because they own the copyrights, they own the distribution rights, they own the music, and pay the artists a pittance to do so. If you want to support your favorite artists, go see them live and buy a T-shirt. You'll be doing much more to fill their garage with expensive european cars than if you just buy their albums.

I agree, and in part, that's one of the reasons I download.

 

[jazzbo]

But, yes, I do try to do my part as a consumer to tell all the wrong companies to bite me. I'm glad you understand it's impossible, but yeah, I do try to avoid them, all of them (or most of them, as the case may be).

Sweet. Mad props man. I'm a firm believer in supporting small, locally owned businesses; buying organic and fair trade; and doing whatever else I can to help my community.

 

[bluemeanies]

To answer the question, I just simply like owning the CD. Downloading music holds no interest to me.

+1

 

[Brendan]

Sweet. Mad props man. I'm a firm believer in supporting small, locally owned businesses; buying organic and fair trade; and doing whatever else I can to help my community.

I'm not so much being about my community (terrible misanthrope and cynic), as I am spiting people. That's the difference. Organic means nothing to me, fair trade, yeah, sorta, but buying small is basically a function of the aformentione telling certain companies to bite my bag. Buying small means I can tell more people at once to do so.

It's sad really. I do the right things, but for the wrong reasons; making me wonder if I actually qualify for having done the right thing in the first place.

 

[BassGod]

To answer the question, I just simply like owning the CD. Downloading music holds no interest to me.

Yeah, there's something that's just more satisfying about owning the actual CD, rather than just a burned copy.

Graeme

 

[Nick man]

I still buy CDs, but only from independent sources. Either indie shops around my home, or through mailorder. The difference between mailorder and mall shops is staggering.

'Expensive' for mall/chain stores?:$18-$20

'Expensive' for indie stores?: $13-$14

Asian Man charges $8-$10 for their discs, Dischord does the same, Plan-it-X charges $5!!!! for full-lengths!!! GAH!!!

Plus, I can get it all, from distros for cheaper and save on shipping. Ebullition, No Idea records, the list goes on!

I don't really download music as much. I borrow and rip my friend's CDs to see if I like them (if I do, then I go out and buy the album). These are also usually CDs I wouldn't find online, or in commercial (or even indie) stores. People like D. Yellow Swans, The Pillows and Francoise Hardy.

I also have access to my school's radio station's stacks. So I can go in there and find what I want and then rip it onto my computer.

Im trying to do that.

What makes it easier is that its somewhat easy to find good music through these independant outlets where as the big ones just flat out suck.

 

[Brendan]

Im trying to do that.

What makes it easier is that its somewhat easy to find good music through these independant outlets where as the big ones just flat out suck.

Yes. Selection beats homogeny every time.

 

[burk48237]

Stealing is Stealing, If you want to do it, it's your business and I'm not going to call the record companies and give them your name. But unless the artest has said he wants to make his music available free of charge, you are stealing from his livelihood and his family. Don't try to excuse it by saying you'll pay to see them live, the fact is the very hoimiginizaton we all complain about in the music industry is occuring precisly because you steal. What reason would any record comapany have to take a chance on any artist unless they know there going to have MASSIVE APPEAL, when they know the profits are going to get eaten up by people like you! Yeah big conglomerate record companies are a pain in the butt, and yes they've become worse, but noboddy is holding a gun up to the muscians head when they sighn that contract. So what happens in this new climate? Record companies realize they can't make money unless they sighn a sure thing, so acts with limited appeal have to it on there own! And it will get worse, the thieves don't cause the problem but they sure as h*@# contribute to it. Steely Dan didn't tour to support at least four of their albums in the 70's, they never played live and yet they seemed to make a decent living, they would not have existed in todays climate. I am shocked that anyone who is trying to make a living or even income on the side with music would advocate the stealing of another muscians hard work! If all you want is a world filled with Ashlee Simpsons and Madonnas keep stealing.

 

[Brendan]

I am shocked that anyone who is trying to make a living or even income on the side with music would advocate the stealing of another muscians hard work!

Not just theirs. When I get music out, I highly suggest people steal it from me, too.

 

[Marcus Willett]

...99 cents seems really high for an mp3. I am left with stealing as the only option...Stealing is preferrable to getting ripped off.

Um, what? ONLY option? This is a fairly complex issue in some respects, but in others not. There is always the option of going without that which you cannot afford and/or won't pay the asking price for. Perhaps only option you like is more accurate.

A guy I know downloads TONS of pirated software that he uses in a side business to MAKE MONEY WITH. Now I have used a couple apps before that were on a computer I bought, so I make no claim to be a saint or perfect, but any software that I use to make any money with is legit. It's bad enough to be enjoying the fruits of someone else's efforts without compensating them; to me it's far worse to PROFIT from their efforts.

Anyway when confonted about this, guess what the reaction is? "I can't afford that software!!!" He's 24. The future of America. If you want something (let's differentiate between WANT and NEED, arguments could be made that stealing is justified to fill a NEED) and can't afford it, just take it. Why should I be denied something I want just because I don't have the money? What kind of reason is that? While I'm at it, why do I have to give up my time and work for money? Why can't I just be paid because I exist? Why should I ever be denied anything I want, ever? This idea can be (and often is) taken to the zone.

I also like having the physical disc. I've got an iRiver player with probably 95% legit tunes. Again, I'm not perfect and I too succumb to "I want" syndrome. Tho I can say that anything I really want, I'll buy. The stuff I just inherit from others without buying is stuff I would never have bought anyway. Doesn't make it right, that's true. But it does make it a lot easier to stomach.

Like Jaco's famous quote, "It ain't bragging if you can back it up." Yes, it is; it's just easier to stomach if you can back it up. Let's call a spade a spade. Stealing, borrowing, sharing, copyright violation...whatever; they're merely words to express an idea. Enjoying the fruits of someone else's efforts without compensating them. Am I guilty? Occasionally, but I try hard not to succumb, and I don't bullsh*t myself about it.

Only in the entertainment biz do people even CONSIDER asking pros to work for free, or for lack of any compensation for their efforts. Ever ask your plumber to fix a leaky pipe for just out of love of fixing leaky pipes? You mechanic to work on you car just to keep his chops up? A barber to cut your hair for free because of the exposure he'll get when people see it? But play this gig or that for free, 'cause it ain't really work, right?

 

[Marlat]

I used to, I don't any more, like Jazzbo the idea of not having the CD w/notes etc just does not appeal to me. All of the songs on my full 40gb iPod are from CD's I own.