I'm not sure using one example of available equipment makes a good argument.
Mike
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Do you think bass companies are charging too much these days?
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
Mike
I'm sure he is Ray. Never put a VW next to an Audi, unless you're a VW owner who wants to feel good about yourself.Interesting perspective Ken. Are you suggesting that the Metro line can compare with a US Sadowsky.
This statement doesnt quite hit the mark. There is another thread on here today lamenting the fact that the makers of Callowhill and Browne custom basses have recently closed their respective doors.
I would think both of these artisans could be called "high-end" and now both are out of business.
Not exactly, and I own an NYC Sadowsky and not a Metro. But to your point, once you get (using Sadowsky as an example) up to 'Metro quality', you quickly get to diminishing returns. So, it's more like 'the NYC is 40% more money for a 20% better bass'. For me (I'm a bit fussy and am lucky enough to have the income at this point to 'get the best'), that is a good ratio and I own and play NYC Sadowsky's. For many, it would not be, especially is you had the chance to directly A/B them, and compare them on pure playability and tone.
I started in '87 and mine was a Hondo P bass and a Crate. It was all that was available in my area.
Supply and demand always applies in any psuedo-capitalistic society. A luthier keeping supply low to increase demand (which drive up price) is a textbook example of this.
Are major builders and commercial bass companies going out of business right and left?
No. Some individual builders have stopped building, but that always happens.
There are used, and budget and affordable options out there for people needing instruments. Unfortunately, what people can afford, and what they feel they need are often vastly different things.
.
No. Some individual builders have stopped building, but that always happens.
There are used, and budget and affordable options out there for people needing instruments. Unfortunately, what people can afford, and what they feel they need are often vastly different things.
.
Tone wood is expensive to test. Thats the major difference between a high end bass and a $400 mexican knock off. Its all in the wood.
The high end market also occasionally has the reverse effect where raising prices INCREASES demand. Paying for the prestige and exclusivity of ownershipt rather than the product. Some the high end luthiers seem to have hit that zone recently. They may not see a drop in demand until they have doubled their prices.
Of course for all of us living in the real world it doesn't matter if they price their basses at $4000 or $8000 since either way the price is way past what we could afford to pay.
Of course for all of us living in the real world it doesn't matter if they price their basses at $4000 or $8000 since either way the price is way past what we could afford to pay.
No, but I think bass companies are charging TOO (two o's not one) much!
The grammar police are back!
The grammar police are back!
My $0.02:
I don't think manufacturers are charging too much. The market is pretty self correcting that way, as many posters have pointed out.
I do think some *retailers* are living in total fantasy land though, especially here in Canada. It irks me that when $CAD drops WRT to $USD, they hike the prices, and when it recovers, they don't drop them. I see this a lot with Fender products, for some reason.
Case in point : I recently saw a Lexicon reverb selling for $335CAD on Long & McQuade's website. Same model goes for $200 USD online everywhere else, and is available locally here in Montreal for $225.
Given the near parity of US & Can dollars, I thought this was absurd. (1 USD = $1.04 CAD as of yesterday.) So, I wrote, provided some links & asked for their best price, which was... $335 + taxes.
Er... kindly remove your head from your butt L&M!
GT
I don't think manufacturers are charging too much. The market is pretty self correcting that way, as many posters have pointed out.
I do think some *retailers* are living in total fantasy land though, especially here in Canada. It irks me that when $CAD drops WRT to $USD, they hike the prices, and when it recovers, they don't drop them. I see this a lot with Fender products, for some reason.
Case in point : I recently saw a Lexicon reverb selling for $335CAD on Long & McQuade's website. Same model goes for $200 USD online everywhere else, and is available locally here in Montreal for $225.
Given the near parity of US & Can dollars, I thought this was absurd. (1 USD = $1.04 CAD as of yesterday.) So, I wrote, provided some links & asked for their best price, which was... $335 + taxes.
Er... kindly remove your head from your butt L&M!
GT
LilRay
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- Dec 27, 2007
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Ken,
In your opinion would it be safe to assume the Metro line is more profitable to Roger and crew than the US counterparts? Assuming there is more net profit in a Metro vs US Sadowsky why wouldn't Roger necessarily rather sell Metro than US? Using your own equation of 40% more money for a 20% better bass indicates Metros are 80% of the quality for 60% of the money compared to the US models.
If Roger gets a higher profit percentage with Metros, it seems he'd want folks to compare US and Metro
?And without the ability to compare the two, there's the possibility that you'd lose people like yourself that are willing to pay the 40% for the 20% better bass. Especially if something struck the customer as necessity available only on the US models.
Keeping the US line out of folks hands for mystique or to avoid comparison is ignorant IMO. I'd hope Roger would have better sense.
My first instrument was a Hondo Geetar
God Bless, Ray
Companies do what anyone would do if there was too much demand for them to meet in a timely fashion. If a session player was so in demand that he could charge 1000 bucks per hour.....and still not have enough time to play all the dates people wanted him for, he'd raise his price until the demand and his available time got in sync. That sucks if you want a Fodera and can't afford one, but it's similar to a Ferrari that costs several hundred grand........it isn't 10 times better than a 'vette, but there are enough people willing to pay for them to keep the company jamming. Building basses is an art and a business, not public service or altruism. I hate that the wait time is so long for some of these basses, but I'm happy for the guys with enough drive, talent and ingenuity to make a decent living at it. As far as the big companies like Fender go, it's similar, with the added kick in the a$$ that comes from capitalism-every suit at Fender who makes decisions is all about the bottom line, and the next step is the individual investors, pension plans, etc, who are also about the bottom line. If they think they can sell a few less for a lot more then they try to. On the bright side, there are many cheaper makers putting out great basses, albeit with brand names that just don't impress.
- Aug 21, 2003
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Ask Tony Levin how much does his espresso machine costand since I don't drink coffee I hear he makes a killer cup.
OMG Man...
Did you used to drink coffee?
That is my drug of choice.
I give it up once a year for 5 days but other then that...
Anyways to topic I don't think anyone is really killing it so to speak.
However another question to me and its very very subjective is
"Is it worth that price to me?"
Basses and amps are very different IMHO
I cannot believe what has happened in the last 5 years with I'm with Kjung on that.
However going back to "Worth to the individual" I think most high end knock offs are not worth it.
A lot folks know my opinion on Sadowsky's and I cannot believe what Fender and EBMM started charging the in the last couple of years.
To me and just to me the might be worth HALF yep I said HALF of what the prices are at GC. Thats just me and my take and what they are worth to me.
I don't know if its just resale value, convenience, fear or the unknown or what have you but I really don't know why bass players that are just looking for a bolt on style instrument just don't build basses instead more often.
Epically with so many musicians that are budget conscious.
BTW: JAUQO if you get the urge to for coffee for what ever reason I roast my own beans that just get from Costa Rica. Let me know and I will send you some complimentary ones.
To be honest, not really. The basses I view are usually priced in the 1k - 2k range, which seems reasonable for a high-quality instrument from which one derives so much enjoyment. If anything, I think there are too many under-priced models, because there are so many kids playing guitar/bass these days and their instruments sound like crap.
In terms of quality and sound, basses today are worth every penny. The problem is that, for all the supposed improvements to the instrument (preamps, high mass bridges, etc.), most mainstream companies simply put out 31 flavors of the same bass they invented 30, 40 or 50 years ago. Walk into any music store, pick a bass off the wall, sit down with it, and let it go...headstock to floor.
Modern basses would be worth the money if more R&D went into the balance and ergonomics of the instrument, IMHO.
Modern basses would be worth the money if more R&D went into the balance and ergonomics of the instrument, IMHO.
The first and last time I tried coffee, I was about 12 years old. I wanted to watch a horror movie that was coming on very late at night. I thought that if I drank the coffee,I would be able to stay awake to watch the movie. It didn't work, I fell asleep about 10 minutes into the movie
Thank you and I sincerely appreciate the offer but I do not drink coffee.
Adjusted for inflation, my SUNN rig from early 1975 of a then NOS earlier made Model T head, found in Hospe's Music of Omaha's warehouse, with a matching, used , SUNN 2x15 cab which I spent about $540 on, would set me back about 1700-2200 bucks these days. It was my first big amp rig. I think general pricing on new gear, and the bang for the buck quality factor is light years ahead of what it was in the market when I was a young bass player starting out. As for instruments, it's amazing what you can find for in the $300-$1,000 range these days.
As a middle class, working, full-time single parent with a mortgage and child care costs:
- Walking into Guitar Center and picking a $3899 Pedulla off the hook, going "Damn, I love this thing. Too bad I'll never be able to afford it."
I had the opinion that the price for this bass was a bit high.
But, later on...
- Finding a gorgeous ET5 Thunderbass on ebay, essentially brand-new condition, hoping that my $1500 bid would hold, and winning the bid - getting the bass - earning wages as a professional musician.... I think it is a bargain.
- Walking into Guitar Center and picking a $3899 Pedulla off the hook, going "Damn, I love this thing. Too bad I'll never be able to afford it."
I had the opinion that the price for this bass was a bit high.
But, later on...
- Finding a gorgeous ET5 Thunderbass on ebay, essentially brand-new condition, hoping that my $1500 bid would hold, and winning the bid - getting the bass - earning wages as a professional musician.... I think it is a bargain.
