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Does a High Quality Bass Improve Our Playing?
- Thread starter Zeus_Mutation
- Start date
I feel that is a part of the issue, that misconception. That's like saying Van Goh's art suddenly became magically better *after* he died. They only became more desirable, they did not intrinsically become higher quality. Sure there may have been under-appreciation. But I bet the $2k price tag has more to do with sentiment than quality.
There are a lot of basses out there, new and old that will hook you with their allure, whether its looks or mythos. How many could play a Jaco-era Jazz and one from ANY OTHER ERA and distinguish purely on feel and sound?
Personally I loathe 70s jazz basses. Had one, wasn't worth 3 grand. I do miss the neck though.
For me jaco and jamerson were responsable to put the brand in the sky they were two kind of bass players those what want to sound like jamerson and the others like jaco me be other option could be Larry graham
Not necessarily. But if it's a good one (not a dog) and a good fit in terms of ergonomics and feel then yes, higher end appointments will only help. A lot of people buy high quality instruments which turn out to be dogs or not a good fit for them personally. This has led to the "good at any quality" perception, or the idea that quality is mostly unrelated to whether a bass is "good" or not. In fact, quality is always related to whether a bass is good, but may appear to transcend price point in some cases. A higher spec bass might not turn out so well, and a lower spec one might turn out particularly well or simply fit you better.
A high-quality bass improves ... the quality of the bass.
The quality of your playing is up to you.
The quality of your playing is up to you.
This is why my personal approach (and I'm not declaring everyone should do this if they aren't comfortable) is to find a lower end bass that FEELS good and PLAYS good and then use the money you saved to judiciously upgrade the electronics/hardware as needed.
My experience is that it's a lot easier to recover from poor choices hardware/electronics choices than the other way around.
A higher quality bass, generally, can be set up better than a low quality bass. You may get lucky and find a lower quality bass with no issues, but when you go up the quality ladder you gain consistency. That doesn't mean that a few turds won't exist, but generally the higher priced instruments will play great off the rack with only some minor truss rod tweaks. With higher priced basses, you're buying precision and consistency. Yeah, that makes a difference in playing.
The trouble to keep in mind with that approach is that it's ultimately more expensive and you might not actually like the upgrades. There's a chance that you'll buy a higher quality neck or pickups and it will change the bass's personality in ways you don't like. Which means you'd be spending more money to turn a bass that you liked into one that you don't like as much. I've done this several times. In my opinion for this reason it's better to start with a higher end bass that feels good and plays good and call it done. That's where you're headed anyway and you'll know what you're ultimately getting. Of course, if the experience of tinkering itself is part of the value to you then that's a whole other thing. I enjoy it myself, but only on dedicated project basses. I like to feel like my main player basses are "done" and not waiting on any upgrades.
- Jul 3, 2004
- 1,300
- 641
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Ernie Ball MusicMan Guitars
I am not saying buy a piece of crap and upgrade. But nowadays, if you were to look at mass-produced instruments, the price differences are mostly in the hardware and electronics. Ibanez is a great example... look at the progression from their 300 series and go up. Most of the time, their justifications in increased price has less to do with the wood and more to do with the metal/electronic parts. Sure, they may upgrade the woulds as certain tiers but, again, how much does that matter? Even high end basses are now made out of basswood.
Granted, my approach is more for buying an instrument you can get your hands on first (i.e. go to a store) than buying online, sight unseen... there you would probably do better in spending more to ensure quality.
I didn't say anything about changing the neck, only electronics/hardware... and I used the word "judicious", as in you do a little homework. But yes, still, you might change it to something you don't like as much, but as long as you aren't routing the sh!t out of the body, again, you can fall back, and try again.
Again, if you can find a bass that you like the feel of, the neck shape, radius, general weight etc... to me that's where you start.
The higher up the chain you go, the fewer the corners that are cut, the higher the selection of components, the more attention to detail on fit and finish and fretwork and the more highly skilled the person doing that work. The best bang for the buck is buying a used high end instrument. You won't lose much on resale and may even make a profit if you buy wisely. If you're going to upgrade a lot of components, just buy an instrument with those components in the first place. I remember some buying a $150 Ibanez Mikro and then putting a ton of work into and then trying to sale for (I think) $800. Nobody will pay that.
I am not building for resale, I build for my enjoyment, therefore that argument wouldn't apply, and that would fall out of the scope of the discussion of quality bass=quality performance.
Most professional mass custom production (i.e. Kiesel, etc) won't resell for close its original cost unless there happens to be someone that wants that exact bass either.
Sure if you want something that exists already, get it. But I am simply saying that I can really like how a bass feels and plays and if the price is right i will just upgrade components happily.
You can agree to disagree, I understand. I am a hobbyist at the moment, I am not gigging. I have time to wait for parts and tinker... thats a luxury not all can afford, I get that.
I am just saying, you do not HAVE to go out and buy an expensive bass if you are not happy with how you play on what you have.... this where online shopping sucks. Go to a store, play every friggin bass, take your time. Some may not be set up perfectly, others will. If you don't know what you want/need, ya gotta figure it out or higher quality may not help.
I’ll also add that what we consider “expensive” really isn’t on the scale of other musical instruments. $2k buys a really good bass. $2k in many other worlds is maybe a student model.
Whoops had a post then read a little bit more closely...
Let's stop muddying the waters (me included!)... The OP is asking if playing a higher end bass will improve performance.
That is what companies sell us ALL THE TIME. The difference between, say cars, and instruments is the amount of influence we directly have on their performance.
Buying a Jaco Bass will not help you play like Jaco (duh, we all know that) but there is an illusion that the industry is constantly trying to sell us. Unless you are playing a rather terrible in the first place, you cannot just say quality will ensure improved performance. If you started off on an Ibanez SR300 and then jumped to a $1.5K Fender P, you are going to be in for a rude awakening because while it is better quality, everything from weight, neck shape, to tonal options will be different.
Also, there is a distinction between "Play better" and "Sound better" where I make my assertion that you can get a good playing bass for >= $500 and then you can look into making it "Sound better" once you get something that feels good in your hands.
No, it is not the only way to go about having a "better" bass, but (for me) its a lot more fun and flexible in the long run. As the other poster mentioned, don't expect the resale value to necessarily be commensurate to your investment...
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I'm completely ignoring the real expensive stuff like coffeetable basses, Warwicks, Sadowsky etc. It never interested me.
For me - if you go the Fender route - there are not that many differences in quality if you - for instance - compare a good Japanese Fender with a much more expensive US Fender. My favourite bass is a AVS '64 Jazz and I have some very good Fenders like a lightweight '75 Precison with Häussle pickups. The AVS is definetely an excellent instrument, I love everything about it. But again: the difference is there in small details that add up, but it isn't that big and it is more about feel and looks than sound.
For the first time in my live I sounded like the bass players I admire after I bought a Warm Audio 1176 clone, a good mic-preamp and a good Neve-DI. This was about 5 years ago and it has stopped me from thinking too much about gear. Every time I hear my bass through that chain, I'm satisfied with what I hear.
It is not real expensive gear - look at what a "real" 1176 costs...
But it is a huge step above all that cheap stuff that is offered for <100,- bucks and promises studio quality.
My conclusion after more than 30 years of playing:
- Even budget basses sound good, it is the other cheap gear that makes them sound bad (cheap preamps, cheap foot-pedals, cheap active electronics, cheap interfaces, cheap strings etc.)
- If you play budget instruments while the players you admire all seem to play more expensive instruments, you tend to think that if only you could afford such an instrument you would sound like them. As a result you're thinking about gear far too much.
- If you have a real good instrument and good gear it calms you down: Now you can no longer blame the instrument or the other gear. You have better or at least equal gear: if you still don't sound good, it is your fault and you have to work on your skills.
I don't resent the money I have invested into instruments. I never bought real cheap instruments, but I bought a lot of Japansese Fenders for example. If I'm honest, the reason I started to buy US Fenders was quite irrational: "owning a real US made Fender", owning the same kind of instrument so many players I admire have played or play.
I resent the most the money I have invested into pedals, cheap interfaces etc., multi-effect units etc.
I have spend far too much money on these and it would have been better if I wouldn't have hesitated for so long to invest 800,- into a decent compressor or bought a real good interface for about 600,- or 700,-. These make a real difference, much bigger than between a 900,- bass and a 2.000,- bass.
The cheap stuff that promises to give you professional results for very small amounts of money is the stuff you should stay away from and that eats a lot of your money over time and is definetely NOT worth it.
For me - if you go the Fender route - there are not that many differences in quality if you - for instance - compare a good Japanese Fender with a much more expensive US Fender. My favourite bass is a AVS '64 Jazz and I have some very good Fenders like a lightweight '75 Precison with Häussle pickups. The AVS is definetely an excellent instrument, I love everything about it. But again: the difference is there in small details that add up, but it isn't that big and it is more about feel and looks than sound.
For the first time in my live I sounded like the bass players I admire after I bought a Warm Audio 1176 clone, a good mic-preamp and a good Neve-DI. This was about 5 years ago and it has stopped me from thinking too much about gear. Every time I hear my bass through that chain, I'm satisfied with what I hear.
It is not real expensive gear - look at what a "real" 1176 costs...
But it is a huge step above all that cheap stuff that is offered for <100,- bucks and promises studio quality.
My conclusion after more than 30 years of playing:
- Even budget basses sound good, it is the other cheap gear that makes them sound bad (cheap preamps, cheap foot-pedals, cheap active electronics, cheap interfaces, cheap strings etc.)
- If you play budget instruments while the players you admire all seem to play more expensive instruments, you tend to think that if only you could afford such an instrument you would sound like them. As a result you're thinking about gear far too much.
- If you have a real good instrument and good gear it calms you down: Now you can no longer blame the instrument or the other gear. You have better or at least equal gear: if you still don't sound good, it is your fault and you have to work on your skills.
I don't resent the money I have invested into instruments. I never bought real cheap instruments, but I bought a lot of Japansese Fenders for example. If I'm honest, the reason I started to buy US Fenders was quite irrational: "owning a real US made Fender", owning the same kind of instrument so many players I admire have played or play.
I resent the most the money I have invested into pedals, cheap interfaces etc., multi-effect units etc.
I have spend far too much money on these and it would have been better if I wouldn't have hesitated for so long to invest 800,- into a decent compressor or bought a real good interface for about 600,- or 700,-. These make a real difference, much bigger than between a 900,- bass and a 2.000,- bass.
The cheap stuff that promises to give you professional results for very small amounts of money is the stuff you should stay away from and that eats a lot of your money over time and is definetely NOT worth it.
