Does anyone know why Sweetwater does not stock Warwick Basses?

[40Hz]

I tried a couple of Corvette fretless models. Neither one exhibited any neck dive. Which is the absolute last thing you ever want to have on a fretless bass. Nice basses. Had one if the nicest fretless necks I ever played. Zeroing in on exact intonation was almost automatic on them. Still eish I bought one. Kinda clean sounding for my tastes. But a little EQ and some additional coloration from a compressor or a warm drive pedal would have fixed that right up I’d guess.

Tried a used Thumb in GC. Heavy as sin. And it hung weird. The earlier comment about it having an odd center of gravity best describes my own experience with it. And I didn’t much care for the sterile (to my ears) tone it had. But that one didn’t neck dive either.

 

[James Collins]

You won't see a lot of the very expensive b.asses in stores for that reason. They are a massive loss prevention risk, they depreciate as people play them, and their price tag limits their potential buyers.

This!

I would also add: If you can have a Warwick Thumb in a store that's been played by customers for $A dollars or buy a newly minted one direct from Warwick for $(A +B), there is a break point where you will choose the new one. It means the $3500 (guess) a store pays for the Masterbuilt Thumb sits there indefinitely (or near so). Then it probably takes the sale of 4-7 newly commissioned Warwick Thumbs to break even (assuming $500-1000 net profit on each of them). If the store model gets beaten up pretty good and has to be replaced at some point, then it starts all over. If you are selling online new instruments only, then you would cut your overhead and make a profit on every bass sold. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in.

 

[David Sutkin]

Ironic timing to find this thread as this beauty just landed at my place this morning ... A German Starbass II ... With Zero neck dive!

 

[kodiakblair]

@57pbass
No need for "With all due respect". It was your good fortune to spot it in the first place,that the manager and staff can't seem to do a simple google search was icing on the cake

 

[socialleper]

This!

I would also add: If you can have a Warwick Thumb in a store that's been played by customers for $A dollars or buy a newly minted one direct from Warwick for $(A +B), there is a break point where you will choose the new one. It means the $3500 (guess) a store pays for the Masterbuilt Thumb sits there indefinitely (or near so). Then it probably takes the sale of 4-7 newly commissioned Warwick Thumbs to break even (assuming $500-1000 net profit on each of them). If the store model gets beaten up pretty good and has to be replaced at some point, then it starts all over. If you are selling online new instruments only, then you would cut your overhead and make a profit on every bass sold. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in.

The kick in the head is I totally understand what the OP is saying. As much as I like the idea of some of the Warwick models, dishing out that kind of bread for a bass sight-unseen is a risky proposition. As I posted here earlier, I purchased a Corvette $$ in an attempt to cure my GAS, but it was the wrong instrument on so many levels. Flipping pedals is pretty easy, but I hate flipping basses.
This is why I really wish there was something like NAMM that was open to the public so people can try stuff out. If I am going to save up $3k-$4k for something, I'd really like to know for 100% certain that it is the one. Maybe boutique brands like Warwick should organize a traveling road show so people can come try out their gear.

 

[James Collins]

The kick in the head is I totally understand what the OP is saying. As much as I like the idea of some of the Warwick models, dishing out that kind of bread for a bass sight-unseen is a risky proposition. As I posted here earlier, I purchased a Corvette $$ in an attempt to cure my GAS, but it was the wrong instrument on so many levels. Flipping pedals is pretty easy, but I hate flipping basses.
This is why I really wish there was something like NAMM that was open to the public so people can try stuff out. If I am going to save up $3k-$4k for something, I'd really like to know for 100% certain that it is the one. Maybe boutique brands like Warwick should organize a traveling road show so people can come try out their gear.

I agree and would like that. But I imagine that because actual demand (people can afford it) for boutique instruments is low and the United States is vast, I would bet the endeavor ended up not netting much profit in the short term. In a similar fashion, it might be worth it to have a ComicCon like environment where small luthiers and larger boutique bass shops got together once a year in a major metropolitan area and showed what they are. I imagine it would be especially profitable for smaller luthiers.

This is the best you can do right now:
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Nearest place to me is 120 miles away that would likely have something instock.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The kick in the head is I totally understand what the OP is saying. As much as I like the idea of some of the Warwick models, dishing out that kind of bread for a bass sight-unseen is a risky proposition. As I posted here earlier, I purchased a Corvette $$ in an attempt to cure my GAS, but it was the wrong instrument on so many levels. Flipping pedals is pretty easy, but I hate flipping basses.
This is why I really wish there was something like NAMM that was open to the public so people can try stuff out. If I am going to save up $3k-$4k for something, I'd really like to know for 100% certain that it is the one. Maybe boutique brands like Warwick should organize a traveling road show so people can come try out their gear.

It can get expensive flipping basses with shipping costs. I’m on the east coast and I usually try to time my thread bumps so that the east coast time zone sees it during prime hours. It can be a hundred dollars difference in shipping a bass to NY or to CA. Talkbass is accustomed to free shipping for all purchases, so you really can’t set a price and then add shipping or a west coast surcharge if you want to sell. That’s easier on Reverb.

 

[James Collins]

Also, be glad boutique bass guitars are not quite like boutique classical guitars yet.

There is nowhere to try a completed project outside of major metropolitan areas. The luthier has not only a build time to contend with, but a wait list which can be a year or longer. As is standard, the build requires a deposit of half, and standard options will cost you around $6,000-12,000. Cost is of course more if you buy from a notable luthier (which you might have a chance to have played or heard played before), and if you deviate any of the specification it will of course cost extra. So you could end up buying a $30,000 guitar from a builder you have talked to on the phone or seen pictures of their guitars online--maybe even a couple of reviews. Often, you will not find any recordings of the instrument itself. And what if you don't like it then? Even if they will take it back, you have let them hold onto the deposit for over a year many times.

As a result, I don't really mind as much the situation with Warwick basses. At the very least, they have tons of product demos available on their website for the standard instruments they make. They also have a very consistent build process, that for better or worse limits deviations in the instruments. Outside of wood grains or big differences in model years, they are at the very least consistent.

 

[sotua]

The neck dive complaints with warwicks are from people who put a $10 strap on a $3k bass. I’m in my fifth German Warwick. And am a big fan of thumb basses which get a lot of neck dive complaints here on talkbass. Doesn’t take a genius to work it out. I mean there’s no fishing line or anything holding these necks up. These two basses were made 15 years apart btw

When I put a $100 strap on my $3k thumb bass... it still neck dived, and took off my shirt in the process since I was wearing a grippy strap. Doesn't take a genius to figure out not everybody has the exact same body and preferences as you do. Some people like their bass in a more upright position than you do. Some people (particularly 4 string players) like the first position a little closer than the next zip code over. Bass life has been ergonomically so much better since I sold the Thumb bass, even though it made sweet sweet sounds.

 

[Barticus]

I agree and would like that. But I imagine that because actual demand (people can afford it) for boutique instruments is low and the United States is vast, I would bet the endeavor ended up not netting much profit in the short term. In a similar fashion, it might be worth it to have a ComicCon like environment where small luthiers and larger boutique bass shops got together once a year in a major metropolitan area and showed what they are. I imagine it would be especially profitable for smaller luthiers.

This is the best you can do right now:
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Nearest place to me is 120 miles away that would likely have something instock.

Yeah - this list is laughable!
I did a search for my area and it came up with 7 Guitar Center's and Sam Ash, which ALL rarely will have even a used Warwick.

For what its worth, the best that I have found is to make the treck to the Warwick store in Nashville as they have the best selection to test drive different models.

I’m not sure about the comments with regard to neck diving as I don’t have that issue with any of my four. I would think the basses that are subject to neck diving would have more of the heavier wood for the actual neck like Wenge. I did have a Fortess Rockbass about 15yrs ago that did have neck dive issues, but my German made basses don’t. All of mine are bolt ons (I prefer the tone of BO) and have Ovankol necks with Wenge fingerboards.

My Thumb’s (both four and five) have Bubinga Pommelay bodies which tends to be heavy and allows the bass to balance quite well. I tend to favor my Thumb's as they are versatile and 'barky' when I need it. To my ear, the tone on all of my Warwick's is phenomenal and they are very different between the Corvette’s and the Thumb’s due to many factors - wood type, pickup placement, pickup type and preamps. My Corvette’s (both 5s) sound very different from each other as well the FNA Jazzman has the MEC MM at the bridge and a Nordstrand J at the neck with Ash body with flame Maple top. My other Corvette is Ash with Bartolini 3 Band and J pickups, this is my goto if I need that Fender jazz tone. I love the tone on all of them, VERY versatile and NO pedals needed for tone just hands.

 

[pigpen1]

High amount of returns and poor sales. A lot of Warwicks suffer from heavy weight and neck dive so they were getting too many returns. Thats at least the case years ago with GuitarCenter who use to carry in house versions of Warwicks (made for GC). Those basses just sat there forever. I know the red Corvette they did was a nice looking and sounding bass but the body was slightly chambered lowering the weight even more which did not sit well with that heavy neck. People would come in and sit down and play it and it would just fall headstock first into the floor. Shame since Warwicks sound so good.

Plus, a real warwick is more than a lot of people want to play. I don't own one because I don't wanna play that much for one. But I know that if I did get one I'd never play a fender a gain (and I own 3), and I guess that is the main reason, lol. I've never seen or played a Fender that came close to the nice low, smooth action of any Warwick I've ever played.

PS. I don't get it, the obsession with weight. Not trying to be rude, but I just dont' see how hard it is for an able-bodies person to hole 10 lbs up for a few hours. If a person has issues, I understand, but come one..

 

[MultiScaleMale]

PS. I don't get it, the obsession with weight. Not trying to be rude, but I just dont' see how hard it is for an able-bodies person to hole 10 lbs up for a few hours. If a person has issues, I understand, but come one..

It’s just uncomfortable. Why pay over $2k for something that isn’t comfortable to play? If it’s easy to play and easy on my shoulder, I’m in a better mood to play and my performance is going to be better.

 

[gazzatriumph]

I had a German 2008 5 string $$ Corvette for about a year. Someone told me a lot of the German basses sent to the US in the late 2000s were broad neck, whether you wanted it or not. I don't know how true that is\was, but there was a slight bit of neck dive on mine. The center of gravity was weird and even though I loved the feel of neck's wood, I had a lot of problems with its size.

I believe after 2007 the necks were slimmer, mine certainly is, like a Jazz neck, I sold my MIA Fender deluxe to get the Corvette and I've not regretted it, everyone is different and prefers different bodies necks etc otherwise we would all have the same bass guitar. Mines a four string.

 

[pigpen1]

It’s just uncomfortable. Why pay over $2k for something that isn’t comfortable to play? If it’s easy to play and easy on my shoulder, I’m in a better mood to play and my performance is going to be better.

Hey, to each his own. I've never felt any discomfort. Just not something I notice or pay attention to. I think a lot of the time people should look at their strap more than the weight of their bass.

 

[sotua]

I believe after 2007 the necks were slimmer, mine certainly is, like a Jazz neck, I sold my MIA Fender deluxe to get the Corvette and I've not regretted it, everyone is different and prefers different bodies necks etc otherwise we would all have the same bass guitar. Mines a four string.

I had a 1998 Thumb and a 1997 Fortress I. Both had very deep profiles/thick front-to-back, kind of like a baseball bat sawed in half. They were comfortable (and I absolutely loved the raw wenge finish), but very thick, and probably one of the contributing factors in the neck dive of the Thumb. The Fortress I didn't neck dive, but it has a ridiculously oversized upper horn so not surpised about it.

 

[Nephilymbass]

It’s just uncomfortable. Why pay over $2k for something that isn’t comfortable to play? If it’s easy to play and easy on my shoulder, I’m in a better mood to play and my performance is going to be better.

They do make basses in a wide range of weight. The lightest bass I’ve ever owned happened to be this Warwick FNA. In fact I always recommend them here on TB for people who want more of a stringray vibe but in a lighter bass.

And the heaviest Warwicks are still not as heavy as for example the Conklin I owned. Now that’s one bass that I don’t care to play standing up for long periods of time.

I honestly think the heavier weight of the bubinga body wood basses has its positives not only for tone but for comfort. For example It allows them to make basses with smaller bodies like the thumb nt basses that don’t flop around. The body of thumb my NT6 6 string is actually considerably smaller than the body on My last 4 string jazz bass or my stingray5. To me that small contoured body makes it really comfortable to play. Here’s a picture to show the body size difference. This is an SKB hard case made for a p or j bass. Look at how much smaller the 6 strings body is. I really dig that because a lot or 6 string basses are really bulky in an uncomfortable way

Main downside of this much smaller body is it makes me look bigger than I actually am in pictures.

When I put a $100 strap on my $3k thumb bass... it still neck dived, and took off my shirt in the process since I was wearing a grippy strap. Doesn't take a genius to figure out not everybody has the exact same body and preferences as you do. Some people like their bass in a more upright position than you do. Some people (particularly 4 string players) like the first position a little closer than the next zip code over. Bass life has been ergonomically so much better since I sold the Thumb bass, even though it made sweet sweet sounds.

I’ve owned thumb basses over a 15 year span. I’m 6 feet tall and over that time I’ve weighed as little as 190 as much as 290 Before I realized I’d was probably gonna end up a diabetic and die young if i didn’t do something about my weight. Now I’m at a pretty strong 250 and feeling much better but I could still lose some more weight.

Point being i myself have had different body types while playing these basses. But yeah I find playing bass guitar in more of an upright position to be super uncomfortable so I can see how we wouldn’t like the same basses.

Back to the neck dive talk. With the bubinga body thumbs a good strap and a metal wireless pack will balance out any dive. The ovankol body thumb bo5 was a different story though. The bolt on ovankol body thumb does have a much bigger neck dive problem. Which could get annoying but I think it’s because the ovankol body was a little lighter than the bubinga body. Here’s the bolt on 5 I had

 

[sotua]

I’ve owned thumb basses over a 15 year span. I’m 6 feet tall and over that time I’ve weighed as little as 190 as much as 290 Before I realized I’d was probably gonna end up a diabetic and die young if i didn’t do something about my weight. Now I’m at a pretty strong 250 and feeling much better but I could still lose some more weight. Point being i myself have had different body types while playing these basses. But yeah I find playing bass guitar in more of an upright position to be super uncomfortable so I can see how we wouldn’t like the same basses.

Like someone said above, apparently the neck profile (and thus the weight) has varied over the years. Mine was a late 90s model, 4 string, with a very chunky all-wenge neck (never liked the ovangkol necks they started offering in the early 2000s). I think if I had had a 5 string I would have probably minded less about the ergonomics, since I'd have had the notes in the low F-A run available in the 5th position instead of the 1st. I'm about 5'8" and the reach was an issue (I could reach the notes but playing busy riffs in the lower register really cramped my left wrist), and having the bass dive made it worse. I don't play super upright position, but I did want something more vertical than what my setup at the time could afford. I wound up trading it for a MIJ JBass that, while being just as heavy, had a neck profile + balance that were much more agreeable to my style than the Thumb was, and was also sonically exactly what I wanted at the time. The guy I traded with is 6'5" and Gumby arms, so he never had the issues I had with it.

 

[pigpen1]

Probably height you wear your bass has something to do with it too.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Like someone said above, apparently the neck profile (and thus the weight) has varied over the years. Mine was a late 90s model, 4 string, with a very chunky all-wenge neck (never liked the ovangkol necks they started offering in the early 2000s). I think if I had had a 5 string I would have probably minded less about the ergonomics, since I'd have had the notes in the low F-A run available in the 5th position instead of the 1st. I'm about 5'8" and the reach was an issue (I could reach the notes but playing busy riffs in the lower register really cramped my left wrist), and having the bass dive made it worse. I don't play super upright position, but I did want something more vertical than what my setup at the time could afford. I wound up trading it for a MIJ JBass that, while being just as heavy, had a neck profile + balance that were much more agreeable to my style than the Thumb was, and was also sonically exactly what I wanted at the time. The guy I traded with is 6'5" and Gumby arms, so he never had the issues I had with it.

Yeah there is a difference in neck profiles over the years. I find my thumb NT6 the most comfortable neck of the three thumb basses I’ve owned. Wider because Its a 6 but It’s actually the thinnest front to back. But it is also 15 years newer. Lot of people did complain about the late 90s and early 2000s neck profiles and the baseball bat type feel they had. I played a gig opening for Ryan Martinies new band Soften the Glare a couple months back. He delt with that by shaving the neck on his fretted thumb from that era but the newer custom shop fretless thumb he also played that night was not shaved.

I personally am not as big on the wenge necks as some folks who are willing to pay hundreds more for them on the used market. My NT6 is not wenge.

my nt5 was wenge. The only real benefit of wenge imo is it’s a very porous wood so as your hands get sweaty during a long show the wenge absorbs the sweat and prevents the neck from feeling like it gets slipperier as the night goes on. Which for me isn’t that big of a deal because none if the necks have a glossy finish so they aren’t that extreme in that regard.

 

[57pbass]

The guy’s name is Christof Kost. Located in Aachen, Germany. Here’s the website: Link Removed
He seems to put significantly more effort into his instruments that into his website, to put it mildly. Plus it’s only in German...

Hello, Have you ever been to his shop? Does he sell directly or does he have a dealer network? I tried to communicate with him but no luck reaching him. I might have to resort to a phone call..I hope he speaks English.