Does anyone NOT use a compressor? (... and why not?)

[mrwood4]

Man....I've been doing it wrong all these years. Instead of spending all of the hours of practice in my 35 years playing bass I should have just bought a compressor when I was 13 and I'd have been set!! It would have covered up all my poor technique! What a joke....one thing this thread has exposed is there are a lot of TBers who don't understand compression.
Thank you to all on here who show common sense regarding the use of compression. No issues with dynamics or technique here and I'm a compression user.
Amazing this troll tread is still open....

 

[FretNoMore]

Astonishing display of ignorance and trolling in this thread.
Great comedy, thanks for the laughs.

 

[Honch]

Your music is anyway compressed down to MP3s so why bother....

EDIT:

 

[Shardik]

Your music is anyway compressed down to MP3s so why bother....

Not when you play live.

Personally I spend less on recorded music and more on live concerts these days.

 

[Honch]

Find it funny this thread. That it always turns into something ying yang, black or white "either you're with us or against us" thing.

I'll bet if we all were exposed - live - to a blind test of any the famous bassists that we laud, and have us guess whether they used compression or not, would leave the most of us stumped, when the answer came.

Being a guitarist too, I have eschewed compression more and more, and was an avid user of it long time ago. It has to do with that you just want to have Santana like sustain on the solos and let the tone hang in there. Now, these days, I don't have to rely on "hanging in there" but play with dynamics instead and not saturate the amp. On bass, I can't think of any time, LIVE, that I used a compression pedal. I tried to, the one I told you about before. Worked not in my favor. In studio, yes. Sometimes. Depends.

That said, I don't think there's anyone who's going to use compressors all of their life, and people who hasn't used it before, are going to start using it now and then. People are going FROM using them, as well as TOWARDS using them during their course of their career. And everything in between. The main thing I don't use them live, is that I want to be able to compete with the dynamics of a drummer. If he accents some hits, I want to be able to make that snap too, at equal levels, and then carry on carress the strings like a baby. The subtle compression inherent in the tube preamps or amps as such will do fine with me. So that one, in addition to - say active pickups like EMG who has built in limiting of some sorts, due to batteries (they put out 9v max), leaves me not wanting to add another compressor on top of already compressed sound.

So yes, in a way I use compression, but not a compressor. Get it?

As with all kinds of effects, it's an effect. A regular compressor pedal, on all of the time, can be as tiring to listen to for any length of time, as with any other effetct. Distortion, flanger, chorus, phasers, auto-wah/envelope, yeah you name it. Just like the listening fatigue present when listening to heavily mastered production techniques of today (look up the loudness wars).

 

[Honch]

Not when you play live.

Personally I spend less on recorded music and more on live concerts these days.

I forgot to put out the sarcasm smiley. It was a snide remark. sorry.

 

[Honch]

I think by and large, this thread has been about general compressor pedals, and their drawbacks/advantages, but very little has been discussed with the inherent limiting and compression already present in bass amps, especially tube amps, and nothing has been mentioned about compression inherent in passive pickups that are overwound.

Mostly used in early 70's 3rd party replacement guitar humbucker pickups (especially DiMarzio), is that, if you use passive pickups you can't crank out more signal from the strings. No matter how hot the passive pickup, it may just distort at the initial attack, or apply some "natural" compression to the tone. Or both. It can't fry the preamp or destroy something in the input stage. Same if you set your pickups close to the strings. It will have string pull, but also a mild compression can be heard. This may not be that obvious on most stock bass pickups say of the J or P variants, but newer neo pickups and rare earth can show these "problems" or idiosyncrasies. But can be used to its advantages too. You can wind them as hot as you like, but at some limit, they will just limit and compress and not send out stronger signal to the preamp. Just a tad squashed.

Anyone using "pickup" compression*? Deliberately?

*I know it's bordering on cork sniffer compression, but what the heck...

 

[AndreasR]

There are still a bunch of people who completely misunderstand how compression enhances your dynamics. Here's a simple explanation.

Let's say you have a bass. Volume wise it goes from (an arbitrarily chosen) 1 to 20. It basically has a dynamic range of 20. Let's say your general playing volume with a normal attack is 10, but with a soft attack you can go to 1 consistently. With digging in you can get a consistent 20.

Now let's say you're playing a song and it benefits from a nice softly played bass passage so you go to playing at 1. Your volume has now dropped to a small fraction of your regular playing. Your band still drones on. You're now unheard by the crowd. Even if it were the case that the rest of the band drops to 1 with you, now the crowd cand hardly hear the entire band. Everyone hates you.

Alternatively there's an awesome chorus. You go up to 20. Your gitarist now can't hear himself play and wants you to die. Or if everyone goes to 20 the crowd goes deaf. You just destroyed your fanbase and there's sadness all around.

In comes the compressor. It's set to keep your sound from staying between 5 and 15. Now all of a sudden your soft passages can be heard in the mix. Sure they're softer, but only about half so. And if you turn up the attack you are about half as much as loud. The guitarist will allow you to live for now.

Dynamics are enhanced because you can use every single bit of your dynamic technique. You can play from 1 to 20 but still be heard. In comparison without a compressor you'd be limited to staying within 5-15 yourself, thus not being allowed to coax every possible sound out of your instrument that it's capable of. The enhancement of dynamics is in their usability, not their range.

 

[Honch]

There are still a bunch of people who completely misunderstand how compression enhances your dynamics. Here's a simple explanation.
.

Yes, not only that. It seems that people in this thread, just thinks that you have to use a compressor pedal, in order to have compression. No one in this thread have so far discussed:

1. Inherent compression or limiting in any amp. Even in the tiniest combos they have put it in there, without notifying us. It's called speaker protection. Especially in low wattage amps.
2. Inherent compression in tube preamps, power tube amps, or other. Even SPEAKER compression, but that demands insanely loud levels.
3. Pickup characteristics. The more overwound and hot, the more compression it induces.
4. Active pickups or active basses. A 9v battery imposes a compression or at least limiting. I doubt few here can hear the subtle difference between the two. As fast as you have a low impedance line, it limits it somewhat. Maybe not as a listener but definitely it can be sensed as a player.

The question is, if people really KNOW that they have compression in their sound anyway, but thinks they have not?

If you combine all points above, what's the point of adding another comp pedal on top?

 

[AndreasR]

Yes, not only that. It seems that people in this thread, just thinks that you have to use a compressor pedal, in order to have compression. No one in this thread have so far discussed:

1. Inherent compression or limiting in any amp. Even in the tiniest combos they have put it in there, without notifying us. It's called speaker protection. Especially in low wattage amps.
2. Inherent compression in tube preamps, power tube amps, or other. Even SPEAKER compression, but that demands insanely loud levels.
3. Pickup characteristics. The more overwound and hot, the more compression it induces.
4. Active pickups or active basses. A 9v battery imposes a compression or at least limiting. I doubt few here can hear the subtle difference between the two. As fast as you have a low impedance line, it limits it somewhat. Maybe not as a listener but definitely it can be sensed as a player.

The question is, if people really KNOW that they have compression in their sound anyway, but thinks they have not?

If you combine all points above, what's the point of adding another comp pedal on top?

Good point. A lot of compression already does happen in the signal. Then there's also the FoH or cretain effects lIke OD. It's impossible not to have some for of compression. You can still choose to add a pedal or not, but those so against it just seem to not understand compression at all. Even though they're probably using some already.

 

[Honch]

For example if I would have a fretless bass (I did, but do not at the moment) I would think it will be worthwhile equipping it with overwound pickups to induce some "pickup compression" then I don't need a pedal. Maybe too hot, and lacking high end, but suitable for fretless solos and the like. Limiting dynamics? Yes, but I think to bring up the "mwaaahhh" when it is needed. It will not be as blatant as a proper comp pedal, but gives a little helping hand, and the rest can be tamed with gain structure on the amp.

 

[Honch]

It's impossible not to have some form of compression.

+1
THIS!

 

[FretNoMore]

...
If you combine all points above, what's the point of adding another comp pedal on top?

Because sometimes a compressor does something that makes the sound better in one way or another?

A compressor isn't some spawn of the devil as some here seem to think, it's a tool that can be used or abused. If the result is bad maybe the person is using a bad product, or much more likely, doesn't know what he is doing. If the result is good but you don't like the flavour then that is fine, nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with the compressor either for doing what it is designed to do.

It's an effect, use it if it pleases your ears and makes the bass work better in the mix. Don't use it if you don't like what it does. Simple.

 

[TonyP-]

The main thing I don't use them live, is that I want to be able to compete with the dynamics of a drummer. If he accents some hits, I want to be able to make that snap too, at equal levels, and then carry on carress the strings like a baby.

Honch, I have to say that I agree with most of wht your saying...There are some components that compress naturally. Agreed.

However with your above statment that can still be done with a compression pedal.
I play with some very dynamic drummers and one of the guys I play with switches from light Indian percussion to full kit, in the same set. My MXR M87 is on the whole time. I can change my hand technique and Im able to match him with no issue.

I'm not challenging You and I'm just stating for edecutional reasons to other players it can be done.
This was my situation when I just opened for Stu Hamm at NAMM and I had no issue.

 

[kat888]

This arvo I was working out a bassline by the great George Murray and ended up playing finger style*, running the PF500 completely clean** with the built-in comp @ 4:1 and it sounded alright, so a Keeley Bassist may still find its way home.

* I normally never do this

** certainly never do this

 

[Honch]

Because sometimes a compressor does something that makes the sound better in one way or another? It's an effect, use it if it pleases your ears and makes the bass work better in the mix. Don't use it if you don't like what it does. Simple.

A compressor isn't some spawn of the devil as some here seem to think, it's a tool that can be used or abused. If the result is bad maybe the person is using a bad product, or much more likely, doesn't know what he is doing.

Yeah, especially the last one. And that what makes them wonder, and diss compressors because they don't know that it's already there in the first place. They did add a comp pedal already to a compressed sound. Or the other way around. They THINK they have no compression and must add. This mumbo jumbo with "transparent compressor" or "transparent" sound is what dumbfounds me over from time to time. It's an electric bass, you don't know how it sounds "acoustic". There's no benchmark sound of what it is supposed to sound like. You can't have more "transparent" cables, more "transparent" pickups, or "transparent" compressor pedals, because you don't know how it will sound acoustic, because it is an electric thing from the start on. The only thing you can decide on is in which way it sounds different from before. More treble? sure thing! More transient attacks? Sure thing! But not ever never more "transparent".

People do judge their sound of what they hear. Most hear recordings. When hearing recordings it's impossible to detect if the compressor used was the mastering limiter at the final stages, or a compressor used on the bass at recording session. Then people draw conclusions to that. Hey! That guy must use a comp pedal!!! What a sound! And they have no idea that the bass player didn't use anything, just a direct line in box perhaps. Every compression is put on afterwards, and the bass player has absolutely no idea what or how it was used by the recording engineer/producer.

- - - - - - -

If I had overwound hot bass pickups, tube preamps, tube power amps, or anything else that induced compression one way or another I would find it - sort of - icing on icing on the cake to add yet another one. Live, I would leave that up to FOH engineer if the place was that big. Another thing which hasn't been brought up, is that...

... Fanned frets basses. Yes, I hear you go, what on earth does this has to do with compressors?! Most engineers I've heard of doesn't have to bring neither deep compression (or at all) nor any EQ to - say - Dingwall 5 string basses because they carry their tones well into the mixer without tweaking. Other 5 strings you must need a help with compressors and offensive/aggresive EQ. All strings have a more equal and proper balance in timbre and tone and output. Granted, most Dingwalls are active but can be made passive with a flick of a switch. Which gives some additional weight to what you said, maybe the person is using a bad product?

 

[Honch]

Honch, I have to say that I agree with most of wht your saying...There are some components that compress naturally. Agreed.

However with your above statment that can still be done with a compression pedal.
I will some very dynamic drummers and one of the guys I play with switches from light Indian percussion to full kit, in the same set. My MXR M87 is on the whole time. I can change my hand technique and Im able to match him with no issue.

I'm not challenging You and I'm just stating for edecutional reasons to other players it can be done.
This was my situation when I just opened for Stu Hamm at NAMM and I had no issue.

No I know. It's just my personal taste, and what my bass and equipment "throws" at me at the moment. Too much limiting and compression inherent anyway. Or at least, my perception of it. Don't forget what I said in my first post that "I would never scold or belittle another persons use of any compressor, and absolutely not for cover up or crutch for bad technique, just because I don't use one". I think it's time to remind people of that one. People have short memories. Not you though.

 

[Honch]

Are people infatuated with just "challenging"? Going into polemics and replies, and diatribes just because of the recent politics debate of presidential campaigns? Contagious. Like "anything you say can be used against you!" ? It's either compressor for or against. Nothing "it depends"? Beats me.

 

[Honch]

...

Alternatively there's an awesome chorus. You go up to 20. Your gitarist now can't hear himself play and wants you to die. Or if everyone goes to 20 the crowd goes deaf. You just destroyed your fanbase and there's sadness all around.

In comes the compressor. It's set to keep your sound from staying between 5 and 15. Now all of a sudden your soft passages can be heard in the mix. Sure they're softer, but only about half so. And if you turn up the attack you are about half as much as loud. The guitarist will allow you to live for now.

Dynamics are enhanced because you can use every single bit of your dynamic technique. You can play from 1 to 20 but still be heard. In comparison without a compressor you'd be limited to staying within 5-15 yourself, thus not being allowed to coax every possible sound out of your instrument that it's capable of. The enhancement of dynamics is in their usability, not their range.

It's called CREST. Or Crest Factor.

 

[TonyP-]

Are people infatuated with just "challenging"? Going into polemics and replies, and diatribes just because of the recent politics debate of presidential campaigns? Contagious. Like "anything you say can be used against you!" ? It's either compressor for or against. Nothing "it depends"? Beats me.

On the flip side when your in a relativly low volume situation with not a lof of instruments being played in the mix and you have no issue at all being heard / cutting through. IMHO Then not have a compressor works great.

However, I'm never in those situations.

 

[Honch]

Yeah, however, I wouldn't think twice if I played in a reggae band to crank a good compressor up to max. In that music, it's almost a prerequisite. Bass up front, in your face, and louder than everything else. Long notes, sustainy, and especially punchy. Then the "inherent" compression in existing gear certainly ain't enough. It's a music style almost invented by compressors on bass*....I would smack a good compressor in the line in a heartbeat.

EDIT: *Bass on compressors really... but you know what I meant...