I use it with my G&L SB-1 on some amps. It's a passive bass but high output.
Really I don't have to use it but it makes the gain knob more usable.
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Does Anyone Use The -15 db Button?
- Thread starter HiEnd Basses
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I use it with my G&L SB-1 on some amps. It's a passive bass but high output.
Really I don't have to use it but it makes the gain knob more usable.
The input pad lets you have a more useable range on the gain knob when using some basses. Usually basses that have higher output.
If you have to keep your gain at 4 or lower to not overload/clip when using your bass you can hit the input pad and keep it around 7 instead. That allows for a larger range of adjustment on the lower side.
All but one of my basses are active, but the output has never been hot enough to need it, so no.
I've never encountered a situation where that applied and it didn't suck tone away in the process. Ymmv I guess.
I guess that matters to some, but I can't recall a time where I needed a more usable range on the gain knob, and usually I leave it set and don't mess with it. To me, that's more of a psychological advantage than a practical one. But hey...
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Some active/passive switches do nothing more than rescale the gain control, so how would that suck tone away?
Some. Not all.
I just play them. I don't make them. As you well know, field experience often differs from the spec.
- Feb 12, 2006
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Right, but when spec is IDENTICAL to rotating the gain control there is no difference at all, and there can be no difference in practice.
Perhaps you have not tried any that use the scaling technique. This is IMO more old wives tales that has a basis of truth in that SOME gear is designed in a way that influences tone. I will try hard to break yet again another old wive's tale I suppose, by doing it in a way that makes more sense (but also requires a slightly different design approach than some legacy designs that have established this perception.)
Is there a reason you're singling me out when I simply answered the OPs quesion like many others?
Not sure how it makes sense to be a pissy pain in the ass to me in particular about something many others have conveyed. Lots of people avoid the -15 db knob. Go preach to them with your bitter nonsense.
If you'd like to persist I can always trade my Mesa.
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Maybe so, but I'll tell you, Andy, in over 40 years of playing bass, I've never played a bass so hot that I've needed it, and I've got some very hot basses. Do they actually make basses that have pickups hotter than EMG actives and DiMarzio Model PJ's?
A padded input can be implemented in different ways so it depends on the amp.
Let's be specific, an Ampeg tube amp such as the SVT uses a couple of resistors as the pad, this in combination with the tube input capacitance that come into play at higher frequencies will roll off the high end a bit when the pad is engaged. So reduced high end bandwidth. Some bass players like this. Guitar players with high gain amps use this to their advantage to cut the high end fizziness in their distortion.
This could be why some say that a pad affects their tone. But you have to look at the system as a whole, including the pickups, cable, and amp. Tube vs solid state are different. As was mentioned there are less innocuous ways to implement a pad that don't affect the bandwidth.
Let's be specific, an Ampeg tube amp such as the SVT uses a couple of resistors as the pad, this in combination with the tube input capacitance that come into play at higher frequencies will roll off the high end a bit when the pad is engaged. So reduced high end bandwidth. Some bass players like this. Guitar players with high gain amps use this to their advantage to cut the high end fizziness in their distortion.
This could be why some say that a pad affects their tone. But you have to look at the system as a whole, including the pickups, cable, and amp. Tube vs solid state are different. As was mentioned there are less innocuous ways to implement a pad that don't affect the bandwidth.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I'm not singling you out for any reason othe than you posted a good example of why the old wife's tale persists.
There are reasons why some pad approaches don't work well, but not all amps use these legacy approaches. Those that don't, don't suffer from this problem even though many who have never played one still insist that they do.
Beans on Toast addressed this same point in a different way.
I can assure you that I was not being pissy, or disrespectful to you or your post. There are many folks here who are trying to learn as much as they can about stuff like this, how about we oblige their interests too?
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I have measured some combinations of bass/pickup/playing styled that were capable of >+4dB levels, so between -30 and +4, scaling by about 10dB allows for better and/or smoother adjustment of the gain control as well as eliminating the possibility of overdriving the front end or primary gain amp(s) unintentionally.
Not all amps, basses or playing styles need it, but if you do then there's no other practical work-around IME. Most do not in fact.
My PF500's tone doesn't change a single iota when the pad is engaged.
My Hartke LH500 doesn't change tone when I plug into the active jack, instead of the passive one.
They are simply quieter.
My Hartke LH500 doesn't change tone when I plug into the active jack, instead of the passive one.
They are simply quieter.
I've never been a fan of pad buttons or padded inputs, I just turn down the gain. Active or passive, this usually works great for me 
I had a 90's (roughly) Gibson LPB-1 with stupid hot Bartolini's in it. Not sure if a pad button would have helped. I was using a Markbass head (no pad available on it) with the gain at zero and this bass was DESTROYING the pre. Clip light was solid blue even on the softest played notes... if you've played a Markbass head, this does not sound good. At all.
I had a 90's (roughly) Gibson LPB-1 with stupid hot Bartolini's in it. Not sure if a pad button would have helped. I was using a Markbass head (no pad available on it) with the gain at zero and this bass was DESTROYING the pre. Clip light was solid blue even on the softest played notes... if you've played a Markbass head, this does not sound good. At all.
I also avoid using a pad.
Playing style does come into it. Some people lightly pluck the string, others really dig in, you can even see the their arm. Just a guess, perhpas you are compensating by playing with a lighter touch when playing with a hotter pickup to get the best sound. With experience, adapting your style come naturally. You are making your tone rather than letting the instrument and amp define it.
Active pickups can have more bandwidth than a passive. But if the bandwidth is being reduced at the input of the amp, you aren't gaining anything.
Duncan makes some hot pickups as well. They are mostly known for their passives but a passive can be used with an active preamp in the instrument. Many modern instrument preamps have a little pot on the circuit board that allows you to optimize the gain for the amp that you are using. Some like the Sadowsky Will Lee also have an internal mid band frequency shift pot which also help contour the output.
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I get what agedhorse is saying, which is, I think:
"a better design means no change in tone etc."
In my limited experience, I find the active pad to do things to tone I don't prefer.
And, it's just very, very, very, very seldom I've had an amp/bass combination that required I use one.
So: I don't use them.
Unless some biZarro combination of Things forces me to.
"a better design means no change in tone etc."
In my limited experience, I find the active pad to do things to tone I don't prefer.
And, it's just very, very, very, very seldom I've had an amp/bass combination that required I use one.
So: I don't use them.
Unless some biZarro combination of Things forces me to.
One thing to keep in mind is that some preamps have a gain stage before the gain control knob, while the pad is right on the input. A good example is the SVT-3PRO (and probably a lot of other Ampegs). The -15 dB pad is before the first tube section, and the gain control is after that, so the pad controls how hard that first tube is driven. This might explain some people's experience of "tone suck" when the pad is engaged.
