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Does playing an instrument make you a musician?

Who do you think is right?!


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i kinda disagree,
I am a person who makes music.
IMO that makes me a musician.
here is a definition
mu·si·cian [myoo-zish-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

but whatever you know? You all can form your own thoughts
 
no, merely pointing out the absurdity of your argument. As I pointed out, the dictionary doesn't say you have to be a professional to be a musician. I was taking YOUR argument inserting this word and of course demolishing that argument too - being a professional in and of itself doesn't make you a musician -- it just means you get 'paid.'

ERGO (follow me here, if you can), one can be a professional if one merely gets paid one time -- doesn't mean you have to have it as a full-time job.

None of which matters - the definition of "musician" doesn't indicate that you are a professional. Got it yet?

I couldn't care less if you think only people like you are musicians. You are free to think as you wish. No one is stopping you. Free country, free message board.

It's just stupid, that's all. Moronic, narrow-minded and self-serving, certainly. Inclusive or correct? Of course not.

Noticed how you ignored basic Dictionary definitions. I figured you'd ignore facts -- that would only hurt your position.

I'm a musician, DESPITE your definitions. If I did it as a full-time job would not make me MORE of a musician. Pay has nothing to do with it.

I am a little confused by how personally you seem to take this whole thing - but so be it.

Peace, bro. I concede. You are of course correct and I was merely pointing out how anyone can legitimately call themselves whatever they want and that definitions, such as the ones provided by MW et al. can be used in both directions.

I deserved some of, but not all the acrimony as I too tossed some on the heap. My apologies for spinning this one in such an unfriendly direction even if I didn't intent it. For the record, I never accused you, or anyone else, of being anything at all - musician or otherwise.

I truly do agree that the definition of musician should include dedication and skill. Semantic debates can and do make for unpredictable dialectics. I'll be more careful next time.

Truce?
 
Imo a musician is a person creating music on his or her own. If you play an instrument, but only copy material, you play the instrument. For example if you cover Smoke on the Water, you're a bassist, drummer, whatever.
However if you make a song on your own, and people to some degree listen to it (who is to judge when you're a musician I do not know, I only got vague idea on regarding this subject), you can say you're a musician.
 
no definition anywhere says that you have to play original music to be a "musician"

By your definition, I guess the New York Philharmonic are filled with a bunch of hacks since they play "covers" (like ummm...Mozart) and pretty much play only what other people write for them.

Again, snobbery. ANYONE can write a song -- most original stuff is crap. Who can't write crap? I can write a song in the next 5 minutes and with GREAT PASSION. Am I now a "musician"? And 5 minutes ago I wasn't?


Doesn't mean you are more "musician" than a cover guy.


Again, let's review the definition by Merriam-Webster, which to me seems the most appropriate: ": a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : instrumentalist"

Nowhere does it suggest a skill level. Nowhere does it suggest that you get paid. Nowhere does it suggest passion.

It is what it is - if you create, perform or direct "music", you are a "musician" -- and "instrumentalist" is a synonym (eg, means the same thing)
 
......But I'm a musician and I do get paid. Period.

Sounds like you don't need a dictionary to define that at all.

Heres the bigger picture I'm not seeing from the posts:

If I have enough love for an instrument,play it constantly, take pride in accomplishing goals (evolving on a regular basis) and go out and play it for money or no money, i'm still a musician. I have a day job that does not consist of gigging, i'm still a musician.

If you play a musical instrument, you are a musician, no matter if you're touring the world playing or just playing in your basement. No matter how "flamed" anyone wants to get, that's the bottom line, who are we to say, "you or I is not a musician" in the first place?
 
apparently a lot of folks here want to define OUT who is not a musician in their book.

I would never imagine doing that. If you're writing, directing or playing music, you are a musician. Doesn't mean you are a GREAT musician, a PAID musician, or a PASSIONATE musician.

It just means you write, direct or play.

Can't we just leave it at that and put the snobbery away?
 
I think there is a necessity to talk about the word "musician" from two angles. Musician with a capital "M" and musician with a lower-case "m".

I think the reason there is perceived "snobbery" is because there are some people who pick up a guitar, learn "Smoke on the Water" and suddenly try to adopt the capital "M" musician title. While there are others who go to school, study very hard, work hours upon days upon years to earn the capital "M" title.

The difference between the two is simple. One person is fluent in the language of music and the other learned how to play an instrument. Both can play music, both are technically musicians (lower case) - but one is fluent in the language and has earned a certain degree of respect for their hard work that is diminished by people who slap the same title on their own letterhead without any of the effort or mastery.

This is not to say that going to school is the only way to become a "M"usician. People can dedicate a significant amount of self-study to the subject and earn the "M" too. Please don't jump on me for implying you have to earn an academic degree to be a "Musician". I really am not a snob, I swear! ;-)
 
Well, acording to my experience, a musician is someone who's mostly drunk, or stoned on pot, or both. When not stoned, she's playing, when not playing nor stoned nor drunk, the musician would be usually hitting the ground and falling asleep instantly with her instrument case used as a pillow. Upon getting up later, she proceeds to memorize a lot of difficult and weird looking blobs of black colour (so called sheets of music) to later play them for money to buy more alcohol/cigarettes/weed.
Musicians I know tend to be psychically unstable, can talk only about playing, even though only people who can understand them are other musicians. But that's ok, cause these people (the true musicians) rarelly wander off from their orchestra/band/whatever.

That's the truth. At least from around here, and may be a bit (just a little bit) affected by my point of view, and the people doing music I know. At least those doing classical music.

(Sorry if I offended someone, you might call yourself a musician and be a really cool guy/gal... hope I meet you sometime;)
 
I think there is a necessity to talk about the word "musician" from two angles. Musician with a capital "M" and musician with a lower-case "m".

I think the reason there is perceived "snobbery" is because there are some people who pick up a guitar, learn "Smoke on the Water" and suddenly try to adopt the capital "M" musician title. While there are others who go to school, study very hard, work hours upon days upon years to earn the capital "M" title.

The difference between the two is simple. One person is fluent in the language of music and the other learned how to play an instrument. Both can play music, both are technically musicians (lower case) - but one is fluent in the language and has earned a certain degree of respect for their hard work that is diminished by people who slap the same title on their own letterhead without any of the effort or mastery.

I can see where you're coming from:)

and to echo this in another light, there is a musician and a professional musician. There are plenty of musicians in the world ( obviously:rolleyes: ), but a lesser of that group can be categorized, as "professional musicians" (One's that make their living, mostly from music) and famous musicians, which I would refer to a "rockstars,popstars and other wealthy artists from other genres (jazzstar, r&b star etc, don't really fit as far as names, but are mentioned as well) which will be defined by several different people, several different ways. Would these 3 categories work as a generalization?
Seems to me that one word could not broaden the ways we are attempting to define M(m)usician.:p
 
Well, acording to my experience, a musician is someone who's mostly drunk, or stoned on pot, or both. When not stoned, she's playing, when not playing nor stoned nor drunk, the musician would be usually hitting the ground and falling asleep instantly with her instrument case used as a pillow. Upon getting up later, she proceeds to memorize a lot of difficult and weird looking blobs of black colour (so called sheets of music) to later play them for money to buy more alcohol/cigarettes/weed.
Musicians I know tend to be psychically unstable, can talk only about playing, even though only people who can understand them are other musicians. But that's ok, cause these people (the true musicians) rarelly wander off from their orchestra/band/whatever.

That's the truth. At least from around here, and may be a bit (just a little bit) affected by my point of view, and the people doing music I know. At least those doing classical music.

(Sorry if I offended someone, you might call yourself a musician and be a really cool guy/gal... hope I meet you sometime;)

Not offended, though,
IMO, bad example.:eek: :p
**But I will say, I used to be like that in my past (even playing orchestral jazz). I've been the exact opposite for quite some time, well that and I don't play jazz too much any more, I kind of miss it though.
 
I think there is a necessity to talk about the word "musician" from two angles. Musician with a capital "M" and musician with a lower-case "m".

I think the reason there is perceived "snobbery" is because there are some people who pick up a guitar, learn "Smoke on the Water" and suddenly try to adopt the capital "M" musician title. While there are others who go to school, study very hard, work hours upon days upon years to earn the capital "M" title.

The difference between the two is simple. One person is fluent in the language of music and the other learned how to play an instrument. Both can play music, both are technically musicians (lower case) - but one is fluent in the language and has earned a certain degree of respect for their hard work that is diminished by people who slap the same title on their own letterhead without any of the effort or mastery.

This is not to say that going to school is the only way to become a "M"usician. People can dedicate a significant amount of self-study to the subject and earn the "M" too. Please don't jump on me for implying you have to earn an academic degree to be a "Musician". I really am not a snob, I swear! ;-)

woo! right on!!!
like i say in a lot of my internet sigs....

I can play the violin, but im not a violinist
i can play the cello, but im not a cellist
i can play guitar, but im not a guitarist....
I play the bass, but I Am a Bassist

i can play tons of instruments, but im only a musician/bassist.
I may not get paid for playing, but i love it just as much as a prof. does, in some cases even more.
We may live in America, but by no means should i allow something as arcayic and superficial as money to outline who or what i am.
If you decide to been played by that..thats youre choice....but i personally dont believe that just because u play an instrument or write music or w/e the dictionary defines it as...that it makes you a musician.
I will not be hld into a mold. Musicians can be a lot of things. But you have to keep in mind that Passion is very key

:bassist:
 
Not offended, though,
IMO, bad example.:eek: :p
**But I will say, I used to be like that in my past (even playing orchestral jazz). I've been the exact opposite for quite some time, well that and I don't play jazz too much any more, I kind of miss it though.

Yeah, maybe a bad example, but it looks like most younger (14-30) musicians I got to know are like this. On the other hand, they generally tend to calm down as they get older... but there's still something, some residue in them from their wild days. Sometimes, it's for better, sometimes it's for worse. Anyway, Im not aspiring to becoming a musician, Im all fine with being myself=)
 
I know a few people from the hills of the Smokey Mountains that never get paid to play their instruments, they play because they like to. I'm pretty sure they could play circles around just about everybody on this forum. They've never had a lesson in reading music. They never go play "gigs". They don't care how cool or flashy their skills are. But you can bet your butt they ARE MUSICIANS! If you doubt it, just go where they are and try to sit in and keep up. It has nothing to do with profession in my opinion. There were "musicians" before there was money. It's not what you do, it's what you are, you're born with it and you can't change it.
Okay let the fillet party begin!
 
If you play a musical instrument, you are a musician, no matter if you're touring the world playing or just playing in your basement. No matter how "flamed" anyone wants to get, that's the bottom line, who are we to say, "you or I is not a musician" in the first place?

exactly.

I am a Musician, Bassist, and Instrumentalist

and no snob here can tell me otherwise -- especially whether or not i use a capital letter. *rolls eyes*


some people here need to get over themselves
 
/dons flameproof suit :hiding:


Some interesting thoughts here in this thread, and I'll throw in my $0.02 now.

I'm throwing out some background here, not to brag or be snobby, but to throw some light on where I'm coming from with my viewpoints. Apologies in advance for the length :)

IMHO, the paid bit that Dave brought up makes a lot of sense, hence the job title "Musician", but that's a horse that's been beaten in this thread quite a bit.

I've played keys since I was 5, trumpet from 5th grade until about 8 years ago, sung since middle school. Started with the bass in 8th grade, had to give it up in high school, got back into it about 5 years ago and it's now the instrument I'm most passionate for. I've been a high school chorus director for 13 years, and a paid church organist and music director for 10. I've also done a lot of freelancing on keys, vocally, and on bass and currently play bass with the praise team at the church where I'm a member (not the one where I'm the paid organist... yes my Sunday mornings are a bit crazy, fortunately the churches are only two blocks apart in a small town). I've got the theory background, compostion background, vocal and instrumental background. I consider myself a musician first and foremost. However, I also consider myself an educator as well, and the success of my students seems to indicate I do a pretty good job.

Anyway, when I was in marching band, symphonc band, and orchestra in college as one of the lead trumpets, one of the greatest compliments I received from the director was that I wasn't a "trumpet player" but rather a musician. I had the chops to go up in the scream register and wail the F above high C at the end of a show no problems, but I didn't do it all the time just because I could. I was more concerned about fitting in with the ensemble (I won't go into the guitard/trumpet player analogy that seems to be very appropriate in most cases). and doing what was the best for the overall sound. The MUSIC is what's the most important thing. (hrm... sounds like a bass player mindset....)

Any choral ensemble I've directed I've always stressed the importance of proper vocal technique for proper tone production and more importantly, lifelong vocal health. HOWEVER... I also stress that it's far more important to go beyond the technique and put yourself into the music, give yourself completely to it and open up to the performance and to the rest of the ensemble and the audience - the resulting synergy will be amazing. I've seen vocal groups with immaculate technique that were lifeless and robotic to me. I've got a small-town rural school with no private vocal instructors less than an hour away, so the vast majority of my students only have my guidance, yet we routinely pull off collegiate level repertoire quite well, and the compliments I'm most proud of are how the students performances on stage are always passionate.

An earlier poster mentioned the guitarist who can shred the F Blues, but if they change keys they're like a first time player. To me, "instrumentalist" and "vocalist" imply mainly a higher level of formal technical training in their given choice of instrument/vocal part. I've also seen **** players who have no formal training but are quite good at what they do.

From my perspective, "musician" is a term independent of professional status, unlike "Musician" the job title. It is very possible to be a "Musician" but not a "musician". (bracing for the flames). "musician" to me, is one who has skill on their instrument, and gives themselves completely to the music and what it requires to be performed well, and in an ensemble setting, putting the ensemble first. Solos are wonderful when called for, but the ensemble and the music come first. I used to be a bit of a chops snob, and in some ways I still am, because I think there needs to be a certain level of facility on the instrument/voice to obtain the awareness needed to fit the ensemble and the music. When I've judged battle of the bands for the schools student council, I always give the kids specific feedback on what I liked in their show, and always encourage them to keep pushing themselves on their instruments, and to listen to the masters of their chosen instrument. It may not be their cup of tea, but hearing what CAN be done may open a door for them that they'd have never seen before, and inspire them to go on to do some amazing things they'd never thought possible.

My wife always comments when she sees me play on the occasions when I'm able to totally lose myself in the music about how amazing it is to see, and how enthralling it is. She makes the same observation when she sees other performers doing the same thing. Being able to make that kind of connection with an audience through music is what, imho, makes a "musician". The rush I get when I'm performing on bass or keys and I reach that level of being "in the music" or when I'm directing a choir and my vocalists get there is priceless. It requires complete dedication to what you're doing at the moment, and not mailing it in. When I see someone else performing and they reach that place, I have a lot of respect for that and feel a sincere appreciation for how they gave of themselves during the performance.

I guess my $0.02 turned into a $1.25, sorry about that, but I'm curious to see what others think.
 
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