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Does price = quality/sound
- Thread starter mybassisalemom
- Start date
In my experience, to get an instrument that suits my needs, whether modding a Squier or buying something outright, the price point is somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 (used on the high end). So I think yes, quality costs, but once you get above $2k you're paying for craftsmanship that is beyond what is absolutely necessary for solid playability and good tone.
Yes...and no.
You buy a $1000 bass new. You go to sell it and get what? $800, 850?
You lost $150-200.
Buy a $200 bass and go sell it and get $100. You lost $100.
You lost more money on the 'better' instrument.
And the more expensive the more you lose. Perhaps less in percentage, but more in actual dollar.
You buy a $1000 bass new. You go to sell it and get what? $800, 850?
You lost $150-200.
Buy a $200 bass and go sell it and get $100. You lost $100.
You lost more money on the 'better' instrument.
And the more expensive the more you lose. Perhaps less in percentage, but more in actual dollar.
I think people are stupid - as a group.
and they are fooled every day.
a simple example YOU can check out today if you want. Go to ANY grocery store and go look at canned tuna. Cans come in different sizes. You KNOW that bigger is cheaper, per ounce, right?
Uh huh...do the math on tuna.
You can find similar disparities where the bigger size is NOT cheaper (per unit) all over the store. I've seen it in tuna in every store for decades, but you'll also often see it in peanut butter and candy.
The bigger packages are higher priced per ounce..only a stupid person would buy it.
So there must be a lot of stupid people out there.
Another great example is from 15 or so years ago. Toyota and GM shared an assembly plant in CA (NUMMI - google it). They made one car, 1/2 badged as toyota and 1/2 as the pontiac vibe. Consumer Reports did car reviews and found the toyota superior. They thought the dipstick placement on the vibe was terrible.
SAME CAR SAME ENGINE - same everything.
Why the difference? Who knows - personal bias, stupidity.. But I bet many consumers thought the same thing.
YOu can buy a ford edge or a lincoln mkx, a chevy or gmc truck - they are the same vehicles yet some (many) claim one is superior to the other.
Yes, people are 'fooled' every day.
and they are fooled every day.
a simple example YOU can check out today if you want. Go to ANY grocery store and go look at canned tuna. Cans come in different sizes. You KNOW that bigger is cheaper, per ounce, right?
Uh huh...do the math on tuna.
You can find similar disparities where the bigger size is NOT cheaper (per unit) all over the store. I've seen it in tuna in every store for decades, but you'll also often see it in peanut butter and candy.
The bigger packages are higher priced per ounce..only a stupid person would buy it.
So there must be a lot of stupid people out there.
Another great example is from 15 or so years ago. Toyota and GM shared an assembly plant in CA (NUMMI - google it). They made one car, 1/2 badged as toyota and 1/2 as the pontiac vibe. Consumer Reports did car reviews and found the toyota superior. They thought the dipstick placement on the vibe was terrible.
SAME CAR SAME ENGINE - same everything.
Why the difference? Who knows - personal bias, stupidity.. But I bet many consumers thought the same thing.
YOu can buy a ford edge or a lincoln mkx, a chevy or gmc truck - they are the same vehicles yet some (many) claim one is superior to the other.
Yes, people are 'fooled' every day.
But the REAL question is not 'does more money get me a better instrument' (which it will in some or many ways).
But Is it WORTH the extra it costs?
And you nailed it - it depends on the player.
I am new to playing..there's no way a Rik or Lakland would make me sound better, play better, feel better. There is no benefit to me buying a more expensive instrument. So no more/better value to me.
So no, a more expensive instrument isn't a better instrument - for me.
The real question in my mind, and in many, is perhaps more of 'where is the best value, sweet spot' in the market?
Lets use guitars as I shop for them (for my kids) more often than bass'.
Is a strat copy for $90 terrible?
Is a signature model strat for $1500 or $3880 better? yes..but is it WORTH the extra THOUSANDS of dollars?
Real question is WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY GET FOR ALL THAT COIN?
I think a $300-800 guitar is the sweet spot. A $300 axe gives you a lot more than a $150 one and few over $800 give you anything other than bigger penis compensation
for bass..seems a sub $200 one can be good and folks feel ones costing thousands are worth it. But are they better? What do you GET for that money?
When you see someone playing an instrument - guitar, bass, whatever - does WHAT they play influence you OPINION of their playing? (positive or negative?)
If so then you should buy the most expensive/vintage instrument you can find.
But Is it WORTH the extra it costs?
And you nailed it - it depends on the player.
I am new to playing..there's no way a Rik or Lakland would make me sound better, play better, feel better. There is no benefit to me buying a more expensive instrument. So no more/better value to me.
So no, a more expensive instrument isn't a better instrument - for me.
The real question in my mind, and in many, is perhaps more of 'where is the best value, sweet spot' in the market?
Lets use guitars as I shop for them (for my kids) more often than bass'.
Is a strat copy for $90 terrible?
Is a signature model strat for $1500 or $3880 better? yes..but is it WORTH the extra THOUSANDS of dollars?
Real question is WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY GET FOR ALL THAT COIN?
I think a $300-800 guitar is the sweet spot. A $300 axe gives you a lot more than a $150 one and few over $800 give you anything other than bigger penis compensation
for bass..seems a sub $200 one can be good and folks feel ones costing thousands are worth it. But are they better? What do you GET for that money?
When you see someone playing an instrument - guitar, bass, whatever - does WHAT they play influence you OPINION of their playing? (positive or negative?)
If so then you should buy the most expensive/vintage instrument you can find.
I agree with you and said this before but people here still argue this. I have lost way more money on higher priced basses in the past. I have lost little, broke even and in some cases made money on budget basses.
A high dollar bass should be better than a mid priced or budget bass.
For my money it better be but in my case a few times a more budget bass was bought over a more expensive one.
When the playability ,fit and finish is not worth the extra money on the higher dollar bass over a budget . The budget gets to go home every time and my wallet is happy.
And see, this is where you probably should just bite your tongue, because your choice of example is not speaking well of your ability to reason and imagine what customers other than you might be thinking.
What if my recipe calls for a 4.5 ounce can of tuna, and I don't need to buy 15 ounces that will be left open? I'll have to store the remainder in my refrigerator to stink it up, or throw it away if I won't use it soon. Did it occur to you that it might be worth spending $0.03 more per ounce to avoid that, and have a more convenient package size? Think outside your box a little, rather than assuming everyone other than you is stupid.
Uh-oh. Someone made a car example. No, the "dipstick" wasn't the only difference in those cars. First and foremost was the price. The Vibe started out $600-$1000 more expensive (they forced you to buy the traction control package and OnStar), and got even worse because of typical options which were installed on nearly all the cars on dealer lots, like the power window package. There were other differences too (front styling, interior, dashboard, electronics, options). And how could anyone buy a car named "Vibe"?? That's almost as bad as Nova, another GM knee-slapper.
I'm not sure why you think this example is even relevant. Do you think Pontiac buyers were somehow "smarter" because they were able to buy Toyota reliability -- cleverly disguised with an inferior badge -- and sold at a slightly higher price?
Some people are indeed easily separated from their money, but your examples aren't exactly proving anything.
It comes down to the individual, whether we're talking tuna or tone. If you find an instrument that you really connect with and that makes the sounds you've been searching for, very often price becomes a secondary consideration.
There is something important to remember. For most of us when we're young and just starting out not just with music but with just about everything in life, money is a scarce commodity. Low cost instruments and entry level amps offer us a way to play today rather than save for a couple of years to get the products we'd love to own. There's a lot to be said for that.
go to teh store. The LARGER packages cost MORE per ounce.
You can buy 2 smaller cans of tuna, get MORE tuna and pay LESS than buying the larger size. So even in your example its dumb to buy the larger can of tuna.
As for the car - the 'common sense' around is toyotas are better than GM cars. Better design, better assembly. In this case the cares were IDENTICAL. And CR said the DESIGN of the GM car (placement of dipstick) was worse than the toyota when they were IDENTICAL.
As for onstar costing more...well, you GET more (than if you don't get it at all). Red herring.
And it's been 20 some year since I worked in a Toyota dealership so things may have changed, but back then MOST ALL toyotas came w/0 A/C, racks, cassette decks, etc. They were ALL dealer intalled options (as I installed them I know). It was a way of keeping import duties lower, advertising lower prices, showing better MPG (no a/c!).
it's like here - an MIA fender is "better" than a MIM one. "Everyone" know that to be true, right?
And MIA is better than made in china or korea, is MIM better than those? And where does indonesia and japan fall into this?
This assumes that american workers are superior assemblers...yet i've never seen any proof of this. Or even that paying more results in better final product assembly.
From someone I talked to (that claims to know) the ONLY diff is assembly. The parts are the same - bodies, necks. If one plan runs low they move the parts to to the other. Is this true? I don't know but I've seen similar things in other industries so tend to think it's credible.
And 'everyone knows' MIJ cars are better than GM and MIM is worse than MIA. Yet I have a MIM chevy that is BETTER than my MIA subaru - in assembled quality, defect count, 'issues'.
You're still at it? You are STILL assuming that the existence of such a product proves that people are stupid. You're also assuming:
- that such price inversions are more than temporary promotions or competitive marketing
- that people actually buy such products regularly
- that people who do buy such products regularly are unaware of the price difference and have no other reason to buy the larger size
The point is, you once again are assuming people are stupid using an example which doesn't prove anything.
As I just informed you, they were NOT identical in many respects.
No, it's not a red herring at all. You're completely missing the point here. Being forced to purchase an option you don't necessarily want is a GREAT reason why someone might have selected the Toyota over the Pontiac, and had nothing to do with the "common sense" you're trying to prove was wrong.
See, I knew you were going to say something like this, as though your car example were directly applicable to basses. As a rule, Fender MIA basses ARE better than MIM basses. The components are better, the assembly is better (yes), the electronics are better, etc.
This is demonstrably false. You seem to have a real problem observing differences between products. Do some more research before you go making even more assumptions.
I see, so people are stupid because they think Japanese cars are more reliable? See, 30 years of car buying experience says otherwise, and so do sales and tons of professional road tests. It turns out people aren't so stupid at all.
The bottom line here is, just because there are exceptions to the "higher price means higher quality" statement doesn't mean that it's false. In general, it's true, and people are NOT stupid, such that products which are overpriced for what you get typically fail in the marketplace.
Status symbols? This tells me a few things.
1. You haven't really played any nice basses and/or can't tell the difference. If you can't tell the difference, that doesn't mean other people are making up imaginary differences.
2. You haven't met anyone playing handmade instruments. There seems to be this perpetuating fantasy that there's a guy with a $20k Fodera that can't play root 8th notes and everyone starts high fiving. I have yet to meet a boutique player who is a snob or can't play. Calling my bass a status symbol implies I care what YOU think about my basses.
Me too, that's why I bought a Lakland
Please note, that I am not a Fender hater or basher. I think the MIA standards are really nice and priced competitively, but the Select and RI's seem overpriced (to me). I think the CS stuff is a little wacky, especially here lately as well. IMHO, of course.
IDK, most collectors I know will go after vintage instruments where it's easier to spend $20k. When you're looking for a status symbol, something vintage and iconic makes more sense than something obscure.
