Does "Tennessee Whiskey" have a difficult bass part?

[Richard Lindsey]

What about bands like The Eagles and Lynyrd Skynyrd, and others, who play songs in concert pretty much just like the record?

What about them? That's their choice, which they make for their own reasons. It's not mandated by the gods of musical correctness.

What about Bob Dylan, who has long been notorious for *not* doing that?

Are there any parts to any song that you think have to be there for the song to be "the song", or is it all open to interpretation?

For example, does "Sweet Home Alabama" have to have that little guitar kick off lick, or can that be dispensed with?

Really not much. Generally speaking (I hesitate to deal in absolutes), when you drill down, it's basically just the melody and the lyrics that need to be there to determine the song (and there's even a little latitude there). Imagine a single person with a ukulele, strumming away and singing "You Shook me All Night Long." If you can tell what song she or he is singing, then no matter whether you love or hate the rendition, the song is there. Jazz musicians have always known this. Rock/pop musicians used to know it as well; if they hadn't, we'd never have gotten Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower," among other good things.

Again, for any of a number of perfectly good reasons, including the practicalities of pleasing a particular audience in a particular working context, you might want to stick with the best-known version. But you're not playing the song itself more correctly by doing so; you're playing one version/arrangement of that song more correctly. Which is cool if that's what you're going for.

 

[turf3]

When did rock and country music change from improvised music to ossified canons that must not ever be deviated from? Did I somehow miss the memo?

Frankly, I fail to see any creativity or art in spending the energy to make a note for note reproduction of a country or rock song. It's not music, it's typing.

 

[mstillman]

I’d never heard it until I had to learn it for a gig last year. I haven’t been conscious of hearing it since.

Same here. Subbed for a friend's country band. Haven't heard it since that gig.

It seems like it'd work best with an above average singer, IMO. Otherwise, I think it'd be boring AF.

 

[turf3]

Rock/pop musicians used to know it as well; if they hadn't, we'd never have gotten Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower," among other good things.
.

Elvis' "Hound Dog" and "Blue Moon of Kentucky".

the Beatles' "Twist and Shout"

A third or so of Led Zeppelin's work was covers of old blues songs.

The Grateful Dead.

Willie Nelson's "Stardust" album.

Ray Charles, "Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music"; "Georgia" - by not doing it the way Hoagie wrote it, he created what is now the definitive version.

Ever heard of a band called Phish?

Asleep at the Wheel.

Check out Dwight Yoakam and Buckwheat Zydeco doing "Hey Good Looking".

Listen to the Who, "Live at Leeds". They didn't think they needed to duplicate the studio recordings. LIsten to "Summer Time Blues" and compare it to Eddie Cochrane's version.

I can go on for hours.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Elvis' "Hound Dog" and "Blue Moon of Kentucky".

the Beatles' "Twist and Shout"

A third or so of Led Zeppelin's work was covers of old blues songs.

The Grateful Dead.

Willie Nelson's "Stardust" album.

Ray Charles, "Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music"; "Georgia" - by not doing it the way Hoagie wrote it, he created what is now the definitive version.

Ever heard of a band called Phish?

Asleep at the Wheel.

Check out Dwight Yoakam and Buckwheat Zydeco doing "Hey Good Looking".

Listen to the Who, "Live at Leeds". They didn't think they needed to duplicate the studio recordings. LIsten to "Summer Time Blues" and compare it to Eddie Cochrane's version.

I can go on for hours.

Yep. Days, weeks even. I appreciate a cover that tries to take a whole new angle on a song, even if I'm not sure it's successful. One of the odder covers I've heard in (relatively) recent years, thanks to my daughter, is Cat Power's take on "New York, New York." Hate it, love it, Sinatra it ain't.

 

[Passinwind]

Yep. Days, weeks even. I appreciate a cover that tries to take a whole new angle on a song, even if I'm not sure it's successful. One of the odder covers I've heard in (relatively) recent years, thanks to my daughter, is Cat Power's take on "New York, New York." Hate it, love it, Sinatra it ain't.

I saw this take on Summertime meets Whipping Post done live on a show I was mixing several years ago:



She does this with many other oddball pairings as well. I think it's pretty brilliant and by far preferable to the same old Real Book arrangements, but I'm sure many people would hate it.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

I saw this take on Summertime meets Whipping Post done live on a show I was mixing several years ago:



She does this with many other oddball pairings as well. I think it's pretty brilliant and by far preferable to the same old Real Book arrangements, but I'm sure many people would hate it.

That's actually quite refreshing!

 

[Passinwind]

That's actually quite refreshing!

Yep, that's my take too. From what she told me she always does enough straight up material in her show to make sure you know she can when she wants to, which seemed to work for folks like Zappa and Sun Ra to hold their audiences too.

 

[51PRI]

Elvis' "Hound Dog" and "Blue Moon of Kentucky".

the Beatles' "Twist and Shout"

A third or so of Led Zeppelin's work was covers of old blues songs.

The Grateful Dead.

Willie Nelson's "Stardust" album.

Ray Charles, "Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music"; "Georgia" - by not doing it the way Hoagie wrote it, he created what is now the definitive version.

Ever heard of a band called Phish?

Asleep at the Wheel.

Check out Dwight Yoakam and Buckwheat Zydeco doing "Hey Good Looking".

Listen to the Who, "Live at Leeds". They didn't think they needed to duplicate the studio recordings. LIsten to "Summer Time Blues" and compare it to Eddie Cochrane's version.

I can go on for hours.

Well, sure, but you're comparing established big name artists to Joe Blob and the Hillbillie Boys playing at the corner bar on a Saturday night for $100 a piece. If Joe Blob and the Hillbillie Boys did as great of their own version of "Tennessee Whiskey" as those guys did on the songs you mentioned they likely wouldn't be playing at the corner bar for very long, but they don't. Saying "I don't do it like the record, I do it my own way" usually does not mean a new way that was deliberately arranged. It usually just means "this is a boring ass song and, while I can't be bothered to learn it like the record, i won't come up with a new cool arrangement, either. I'll just jam through it and it'll be awright!"

Shouldn't we strive for better than that?

 

[turf3]

Elvis sure as heck wasn't an established big name artist when he recorded the two songs I listed. He was a truck driver who stopped in at a hole in the wall recording studio for a lark.

The Beatles were some yobbos playing in a Hamburg dive and sleeping four to a basement apartment.

But that's not really the point.

Anyway, yes, I'd rather hear The Anonymous Quartet try to do something of their own, and imperfectly, than hear them try to do a note for note copy of someone else's thing (which will also be imperfect). Maybe that's because my whole musical life, except for the inevitable childhood music lessons, has been spent in either African-American improvised music (rock and jazz) or Scottish-Irish-English improvised music (old time, country and bluegrass). Doing your own thing takes precedence over "perfection".

Like I said, when did these forms of popular improvised music become so ossified?

 

[51PRI]

Elvis sure as heck wasn't an established big name artist when he recorded the two songs I listed. He was a truck driver who stopped in at a hole in the wall recording studio for a lark.

The Beatles were some yobbos playing in a Hamburg dive and sleeping four to a basement apartment.

But that's not really the point.

Anyway, yes, I'd rather hear The Anonymous Quartet try to do something of their own, and imperfectly, than hear them try to do a note for note copy of someone else's thing (which will also be imperfect). Maybe that's because my whole musical life, except for the inevitable childhood music lessons, has been spent in either African-American improvised music (rock and jazz) or Scottish-Irish-English improvised music (old time, country and bluegrass). Doing your own thing takes precedence over "perfection".

Like I said, when did these forms of popular improvised music become so ossified?

It isn't, and I didn't intend to imply that it is, or should be. However, to get back to the original thread idea, the bass part to "Tennessee Whiskey" must be a difficult part to play. I've played it with three bass players who can't, or won't, play it like the record, even when they try.

 

[turf3]

I've listened to the Stapleton version several times now (I assume that's the recording you're talking about). Sure doesn't seem like a difficult part to me.

My guess is that no one wants to take the time to learn note for note what was on the record when it's so simple. Either they don't want to play simple so they're messing it up; or they can play simple but the are thinking "why should I spend a bunch of time to learn this note for note, it's just a plain simple 12/8 part." If I were asked to play on this tune that's the approach I would take. I doubt very much whether anyone would notice that I wasn't playing the recorded part note for note unless they had made an extra-special effort to memorize it.

 

[turf3]

I've listened to the Stapleton version several times now (I assume that's the recording you're talking about). Sure doesn't seem like a difficult part to me.

Difficult bass parts would be things like "Whipping post", "Night in tunisia", "Bohemia After Dark", "Tricotism", "Roundabout", anything John Wetton ever played on, :Big Noise from Winnetka", "Pithecanthropus Erectus", etc.

My guess is that no one wants to take the time to learn note for note what was on the record when it's so simple. Either they don't want to play simple so they're messing it up; or they can play simple but the are thinking "why should I spend a bunch of time to learn this note for note, it's just a plain simple 12/8 part." If I were asked to play on this tune that's the approach I would take. I doubt very much whether anyone would notice that I wasn't playing the recorded part note for note unless they had made an extra-special effort to memorize it.

 

[3684799953275]

Sometimes knowing when NOT to play is better than overplaying.....

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Sometimes knowing when NOT to play is better than overplaying.....

Yep.... maybe always think, "WWJD ?"...
that is "What Would Jamerson Do?"

 

[Pacman]

Yep.... maybe always think, "WWJD ?"...
that is "What Would Jamerson Do?"

The thing is, Jamerson played some of the busiest bass lines ever....

 

[51PRI]

The thing is, Jamerson played some of the busiest bass lines ever....

Busy, but always with a groove. I don't think he ever overplayed.

I've listened to the Stapleton version several times now...My guess is that no one wants to take the time to learn note for note what was on the record when it's so simple.....

It is simple, in a way, but playing it in the flowing 12/8 signature takes concentration, too. The thing about the part is that it is literally the same exact part through the entire song. When a song is written (and played) in that way it gives the song a vibe that is different that when it is played freeform. I remember a song on one of Eric Clapton's "Crossroads" concerts in which the entire song repeats the same patten, literally for the entire song. It becomes almost trance like when done correctly. For me now it's become a goal to see what the song sounds like when the bass player plays the right part throughout the entire song.

Yep.... maybe always think, "WWJD ?"...
that is "What Would Jamerson Do?"

Jamerson probably wouldn't be the right bassist for this song as the songwriter obviously intended it to be played.

 

[51PRI]

I played the song seems like hundreds of times years ago, the way George Jones did it.
I was unaware of this version until this thread.
And if you say you don’t like George give a listen to He Stopped Loving Her Today. If that don’t move you you’ve got no soul.

Yeah, and also "The Grand Tour" and "Who's Gonna Fill Their Shoes", not to mention Jones' guest part on Lorrie Morgan's "I Was Country When Country Wasn't Cool." George Jones had the best voice ever in country music in my opinion.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Jamerson probably wouldn't be the right bassist for this song as the songwriter obviously intended it to be played.

Not to add flame to the fire, but Chris Stapleton wasn't the songwriter, nor was David Allan Coe. So copping Stapleton's version isn't about adhering to the songwriter's intentions at all, it's about reproducing a particular artist's interpretation. Which again is fine if that's what you want to do.

And in the world of professional songwriting--as in, people who make their living doing that rather than performing--songwriters tend to stress out less than we might think about how a song "should" be played. Sure, they'd have their own ideas, but a lot of time they'd be happier selling a song to, say, Tim McGraw, than not selling it, and they wouldn't worry overmuch about whether Tim does it the way they'd do it or not.

And Jamerson was perfectly capable of playing simple and slow when he wanted to.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

George Jones had the best voice ever in country music in my opinion.

Can't argue with that.