Does this hurt or help?

[Alien8]

Thank-you for making this information known, I will not be purchasing from the company's store ever. I will also never buy Abominable used.

I've experienced so many other well built and more so well supported products that when I hear about problems like this I avoid wasting my time and money on them entirely.

Other builders (who I refuse to name here so they aren't in any way linked) have gone to unexpected lengths to ensure that I am happy with their product - even by purchasing a USED unit back from me in one case! I would suspect that in the case where this certain builder bought the pedal back from me, I would have been a victim of shaming by this Abominable capitalist for a problem that couldn't be replicated due to a number of variables.

 

[skydivingninja]

I can understand getting frustrated if he holds a sale and someone flips it for the full price right after they get it. That sucks, and he's allowed to be frustrated and talk about being frustrated. But in the grand scheme of things this is nothing. He's not partnered with a crazy christian organization like JHS, and he's not a notorious dick like the Fulltone guy. If you want an Abominable-style sound this shouldn't deter you in the least if you're going to try and use it, especially since the prices honestly aren't bad for a boutique. Cheaper than a Grey Stache and way cheaper than any W&C muff clones.

 

[bonin in the boneyard]

Reminds me of this guy.

"This job would be great if it wasn't for the @#$%ing customers."
"Which ones."
"All of them."

 

[btmpancake]

Its mine, it belongs to me, I do with it as I please and if he don't like me flipping then make me partner. We can work something out.

 

[MGR]

Op here. Wow. Great responses! Thanks!!

I actually expected a lot of people to think Abominable's stance was perfectly acceptable, but I was pleasantly surprised most people agreed with me that this sort of business practice is unacceptable. Yes, people who are in business have a right to publicly say what they want. But since the pedal world is so saturated right now, and it seems as though hardly anyone is buying much anymore, why even potentially alienate people? Just this thread alone has at least 3 or 4 people who will not buy anything from him now. This was not my goal, but I am happy that people are voting with their dollars.

 

[jwr]

I can understand getting frustrated if he holds a sale and someone flips it for the full price right after they get it. That sucks, and he's allowed to be frustrated and talk about being frustrated. But in the grand scheme of things this is nothing. He's not partnered with a crazy christian organization like JHS, and he's not a notorious dick like the Fulltone guy. If you want an Abominable-style sound this shouldn't deter you in the least if you're going to try and use it, especially since the prices honestly aren't bad for a boutique. Cheaper than a Grey Stache and way cheaper than any W&C muff clones.

The problem is not that he's frustrated. It's that he's unprofessional enough to voice it on his business page on Facebook. I thought perhaps this was slightly over blown and went and looked at homies Facebook page. Nope. At some point it became apparent that he was becoming increasing overwhelmed and irritated with his customer base. Perhaps getting too big for his own good? I'm not sure. Business 101 man, you don't dog on customers unless you want to lose them. When I was still very active with Acid Splash Designs I would get upset with some situations, did I go out and make insane posts about it on my Facebook? No way! Why would I? That's silly.

On the JHS thing. I actually met Josh twice, the first time he seem stand offish, the second time was at his shop and I was buying a Boss DD500 from him. He was nothing but a gentleman. So I'd gladly buy a pedal from him any day. He was nice to me! That's important! Plus it doesn't matter to me what his religion is or what faith he is.

I originally found Abominable to be tasteless in their choice of marketing and graphics but someone here made me realize I was being silly and I've since changed my mindset, so same deal.

What deters me is a lack of "I care about my customers". The same exact reason I will not buy from Devi Ever, Midnight Amplification, and numerous others. I've seen the way they don't care or experienced it.

However Ryan, who makes the Grey Stache (regardless of if it's more expensive), is one of the most responsive and kindest guys I've spoken with.

To each their own, but I won't buy from a guy who has such disdain for his customer base or rather potential base.

 

[MGR]

The problem is not that he's frustrated. It's that he's unprofessional enough to voice it on his business page on Facebook. I thought perhaps this was slightly over blown and went and looked at homies Facebook page. Nope. At some point it became apparent that he was becoming increasing overwhelmed and irritated with his customer base.

However Ryan, who makes the Grey Stache (regardless of if it's more expensive), is one of the most responsive and kindest guys I've spoken with.

To each their own, but I won't buy from a guy who has such disdain for his customer base or rather potential base.

Yes, totally accurate. He's been doing this kind of stuff on Facebook for a while, which had already turned me off to his brand. This latest rant of his just broke the camel's back for me. I won't even buy a used pedal of his now.

And I agree that Ryan is one of the best at treating customers right. I've been thru a few Fuzzrocious pedals and although they didn't really work for me personally, they were all extremely well built and thought out and the customer service was always great.

Another Ryan that kicks major butt in terms of service and pedals is Ryan Le Win of Built By Ryan. Admittedly he's my new favorite builder at the moment so my opinion is colored, but one of the reasons for my admiration for him is that he is a first class businessman.

 

[Al Kraft]

I am happy that people are voting with their dollars.

...and that's the way the free market system is supposed to work!

 

[veryvery]

At least he doesn't ship his pedals without boxes... OR DOES HE

 

[Blaargh]

There are a ton of pedal companies that are run by straight-up lovely people. You don't have to give a douche your money.

 

[mikeyjm2]

At least he doesn't ship his pedals without boxes... OR DOES HE

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Yes, totally accurate. He's been doing this kind of stuff on Facebook for a while, which had already turned me off to his brand. This latest rant of his just broke the camel's back for me. I won't even buy a used pedal of his now.

And I agree that Ryan is one of the best at treating customers right. I've been thru a few Fuzzrocious pedals and although they didn't really work for me personally, they were all extremely well built and thought out and the customer service was always great.

Another Ryan that kicks major butt in terms of service and pedals is Ryan Le Win of Built By Ryan. Admittedly he's my new favorite builder at the moment so my opinion is colored, but one of the reasons for my admiration for him is that he is a first class businessman.

Definitely two good examples of people to do business with. The dude from Idiotbox is the BEST about replying to emails quickly and being super friendly. Guy even asked for my band's Facebook page to check them out, that's never happened before for me, though he's likely looking to see if an artist endorsement deal would yield good results. Still, that's a courteous business move to make and he did it tastefully.

Another good one, though it's not a pedal brand, is the gent from Audere. Did a return and he was super cool about it, ended up coming back to him for another preamp and had zero issues with my order or the product. Emails back quickly and is very polite too.

Concerning this Abominable pedals guy, it's just kind of interesting that a dude with all this hail satan and demon this or devil that stuff is such a childish whiner about when people hurt his feelings...you figure someone with such macho or brutal stuff would be a little more butch, it's esoteric heavy metal graphics, ya know? lol. For me the straw breaking the camel's back is posting PRIVATE emails from users to him on a public Facebook page. Whether he is mad or not, that's a conversation I'm sure those people didn't approve to be posted in the open. If my communication with him as a business owner isn't private, then I have no desire to give him my money or business.

W&C stuff may be expensive, but I can tell you that my Tall Font Russian is worth every penny to me. I also received it quickly and correspondence was very on-point. Vote with your dollars, but it's sad to see money going to builders who act like children when 10 other people do just as good (or better) while maintaining professionalism.

 

[40Hz]

How would you feel if you had a company and someone did that with your product? The builder said something about it because he knows there is a public forum to speak from and he wanted people to know how he felt about it. What's wrong with that??

Um...it's unprofessional as well as rather childish and naive for starters?

Sell it and it's not "your pedal" anymore. Getting all mama-bear about it doesn't change that.

 

[Johnny Mac]

I've never used an Abominable pedal, nor have I ever dealt with him, but none of this particularly phases me. The demos I've heard sound good, and I've similar stuff go for way more money. The TAT is definitely high, but he's up front about the length, and I've yet to hear stories of him pulling a Nosepedal/Dr. Bass and not delivering.

As for the pedal-flipping thing, it's one thing to sell off a pedal you're not happy with, but purchasing pedals with the express intent of selling them immediately is a douchey move. If you want to call the builder whiney for complaining publicly, fine, but I don't blame him for trying to deter people from undercutting his business.

That said, I also don't blame people for being rubbed the wrong way by his behavior, or refusing to do business with him because of it.

 

[EVerderame]

right î
i don't like to be "that guy", but i see Abominable's point: someone buy his product, which is apparently a small company, by a discounted price and sell it for full price. this means someone is actually abusing from his good faith and getting money from him. this is the situation, right? it doesn't seen to be an used item, looks more like someone taking profit on his products (and work). well, he was very unfortunate in the way he expresses, but if i'd run a small company, I wouldn't like someone doing this to me.

 

[MGR]

I've never used an Abominable pedal, nor have I ever dealt with him, but none of this particularly phases me. The demos I've heard sound good, and I've similar stuff go for way more money. The TAT is definitely high, but he's up front about the length, and I've yet to hear stories of him pulling a Nosepedal/Dr. Bass and not delivering.

As for the pedal-flipping thing, it's one thing to sell off a pedal you're not happy with, but purchasing pedals with the express intent of selling them immediately is a douchey move. If you want to call the builder whiney for complaining publicly, fine, but I don't blame him for trying to deter people from undercutting his business.

That said, I also don't blame people for being rubbed the wrong way by his behavior, or refusing to do business with him because of it.

Thoughtful post. Thanks. I guess my only thing to say though is that you're operating under the assumption that the buyer did indeed buy it with the express purpose of flipping it. This is simply conjecture and we have only Abominable's theory as the only "proof" of that. Also, I could see a builder getting pissed off if someone bought to flip and is asking 3 times as much, but in reality, how much could the seller have been asking? I mean, he can't be charging double because then nobody would buy. Chances are, if he did indeed buy it to flip it, he is only making a few bucks, which hardly qualifies as shady or nefarious, even if he did buy it to flip. I do respect your opinion though and thanks for the contribution.

 

[EVerderame]

a few months ago i needed a pup for my 5er and was inclined to get a Nordstrand. the "official dealer" in my country was asking something like 600 Usd for it. so there is no way that a pup can cost that. I commented this in a TB thread and Carey got very angry with the fact that the dealer was getting more money than his company on HIS product. of course as the OP says it is no clear what the situation is, but i wouldn't judge him or his work by a FB rant.

 

[tekhedd]

How would you feel if you had a company and someone did that with your product?

Wow, easy one: I would feel like an idiot for selling a new, rare item below market value, and then compensate by attacking the buyer and my customer base. Well, no, wait, I'd do the first part, but then I'd just stop selling high-demand-low-volume items at a discount.

Not everybody is rational.

 

[jwr]

right î
i don't like to be "that guy", but i see Abominable's point: someone buy his product, which is apparently a small company, by a discounted price and sell it for full price. this means someone is actually abusing from his good faith and getting money from him. this is the situation, right? it doesn't seen to be an used item, looks more like someone taking profit on his products (and work). well, he was very unfortunate in the way he expresses, but if i'd run a small company, I wouldn't like someone doing this to me.

So this is the question I raise to you because folks do this all the time in the used market. Do you think that you should always sell a pedal for what you paid for it?

It's not abusing anything. This is a delusional thought process and I'm sorry but you are wrong. If you purchase a product for 50 dollars you have every right to sell it for 100. After it leaves the sellers hands and goes into the buyers hands, it is their property.

Also what good faith is there in running sales? What, oh he cut me a deal along with every other guy that saw his sale. He sure did me a favor! No. I'm sorry it's his prerogative to have sales as much as he does. Which btw is extremely sketchy IMO and makes a business look weak. Again you are devaluing your own product. I get sales every once and awhile but I see sales all the time from them. Almost as much as Prymaxe!

Perhaps instead of throwing a child like hissy fit about it, he could confide in other builders on how they do things. You'd be surprised how open they are. I've had the great pleasure of working with many of them.

So my point is this. You cannot control the second hand market and if you get all butt hurt by it and post a public bitch fest about it, you're only making yourself look like a fool.

 

[MGR]

Wow, easy one: I would feel like an idiot for selling a new, rare item below market value, and then compensate by attacking the buyer and my customer base. Well, no, wait, I'd do the first part, but then I'd just stop selling high-demand-low-volume items at a discount.

Not everybody is rational.

Good one. One thing I'd add is that another one of Abominables complaints is that people seem to mainly be buying when he has a sale, and then instead of realizing that maybe his prices are too high ($350 for a Sunnbather!), he threatens to never have a sale again. Talk about childish behavior!

Perhaps he should recognize he has priced himself out of the market and needs to come back down to earth.

I almost bought one of his pedals last year, but before I did, he hiked his prices by quite a bit. There is very simply a threshold people will not go above. My personal threshold is about $150 these days. Reverb has made it very easy to score deals with the "make offer" button. I have gotten some juicy deals lately with brand new pedals that the makers were willing to haggle on. This is the way to go. Simply too many pedal makers out there all with similar offerings. It's just too easy to find someone else to buy from.