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Does this hurt or help?

#61
Pretty standard stuff coming from business owners that have no business training. Just let his company die and go away like the legions of other talented but clueless business owners before him. He is obviously a marketing genius LOL

He cant even figure out how to do basic finance/econ/supply/demand to price his pedals and avoid the crap he is doing to himself.
 
#62
40Hz said:
Good point. Transferrable warranties can actually boost your sales because it makes you product even more valuable to the buyer. And you also get information about a potential future customer when your warranty gets transferred and registered to a new owner. Because if somebody liked one of your products enough to take a chance and buy a used one, there's a very good chance you make other things they will also be interested in acquiring.
Click to expand...

I agree that transferable warranties make a product more valuable. But, I prefer a warranty that follows the product, instead of having a person that has to register their warranty somehow. I don't think forcing some sort of warranty registration process on a person to gather marketing data or a target for a future potential sale is necessary... it is really none of my business who has 2nd hand pedals.

Keep the warranty process very, very simple... the customer contacts you with an issue that needs repair, you tell them where to ship the pedal. The pedal arrives, fix the pedal, fully test the pedal and then ship it back per your warranty guidelines ASAP.:thumbsup:

-Frank
 
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#63
boomertech said:
I agree that transferable warranties make a product more valuable. But, I prefer a warranty that follows the product, instead of having a person that has to register their warranty somehow. I don't think forcing some sort of warranty registration process on a person to gather marketing data or a target for a future potential sale is necessary... it is really none of my business who has 2nd hand pedals.

Keep the warranty process very, very simple... the customer contacts you with an issue that needs repair, you tell them where to ship the pedal. The pedal arrives, fix the pedal, fully test the pedal and then ship it back per your warranty guidelines ASAP.:thumbsup:

-Frank
Click to expand...

Fair enough. But most transferable warranties I've seen required some sort of notification or registration transfer regardless of whether marketing data was being gathered or not. Otherwise there's no effective way to establish date of original sale for warranty purposes - unless all sales are direct from the manufacturer to the customer.

Keeping the warranty process very simple is a nice goal. But having been in manufacturing, that's difficult to achieve for a variety of very practical reasons.

In this era of online registrations, I don't consider requiring your warranty be registered is asking the consumers for that much. Especially since you're going to need to register for tech support or to make a claim if you ever need too.

But that's me. YMMV. :)
 
#64
I don't understand the logic in getting frustrated by someone flipping something they bought off of you. You agreed to sell the item for that price - if the item gets re-sold for more the only person you should be frustrated with is yourself for not knowing the items value/the market well enough/not being patient. I run a business and when we have a sale we try to push as much volume as possible. I could care less what happens to the product after it's been sold - I find a number that works for me, price product at that price, and try to sell as much as possible.

I'd be surprised if he's moving much volume/making money - getting upset over something like this doesn't strike me as something someone moving a lot of product would care about.

It seems like people are willing to pay more to skip the wait time and that's where the profit margin is coming from. The builder controls the wait time - why not cut your wait time and cut out the middle man? If you're constantly having sales there's no way you are backed up with orders, why are pedals taking 8 weeks to build?
 
#65
40Hz said:
Fair enough. But most transferable warranties I've seen required some sort of notification or registration transfer regardless of whether marketing data was being gathered or not. Otherwise there's no effective way to establish date of original sale for warranty purposes - unless all sales are direct from the manufacturer to the customer.

Keeping the warranty process very simple is a nice goal. But having been in manufacturing, that's difficult to achieve for a variety of very practical reasons.

In this era of online registrations, I don't consider requiring your warranty be registered is asking the consumers for that much. Especially since you're going to need to register for tech support or to make a claim if you ever need too.

But that's me. YMMV. :)
Click to expand...

I only do direct sales, so I know the exact date to start a warranty. I also do not require any registration or even a sale to provide tech support.

The problem with registration of warranties for second hand owners, is that if the original owner did not register then you are SOL. Because the original sale date has not been recorded.

If I were to have distributors, I would find out approx how long my product sits on their shelf, add double that period of time to the ship date from the factory and then add the warranty period to those units. So, some units may technically have a little more than a 5 year warranty, but all units from that distributor will have a solid 5 year warranty. That way, second hand customers do not have to be reliant on the original owners warranty registration. Simple!:)

-Frank
 
#67
Dude has in the past offered to jump people to the front of the waiting list (or an immediate ship) because he needed money, or in one case a replacement for his broken cell phone. His actions bely a company rolling it's revenue into the next batch of stock. It's not that big of a stretch to say that it's likely that he doesn't have the funds to finish every single order currently pending with the funds and stock he currently has.
 
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#68
I had a similar experience with the massive ego of Tim Paravincini of EAR audio. I needed a part and his distributor told me to call directly, which I did.
Mr. Paravincini contacted me later for the sole purpose of blasting me for having the nerve to contact his business directly: he extremely rude and dismissive, but
did take the time to berate me for following his distributors instructions, stopping just short of
calling me a liar.

I sold the amp immediately and took the loss. I will not deal with such people, no matter how good their gear: I have to touch and
use their product regularly, and it would be a constant reminder of an extremely unpleasant business interaction.

By the way, I've run my own business for 34 years, so I understand how one can get busy, etc., but an owner's obnoxious attitude is
not something I will put up with, if at all avoidable.
 
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#69
boomertech said:
I only do direct sales, so I know the exact date to start a warranty. I also do not require any registration or even a sale to provide tech support.

The problem with registration of warranties for second hand owners, is that if the original owner did not register then you are SOL. Because the original sale date has not been recorded.

If I were to have distributors, I would find out approx how long my product sits on their shelf, add double that period of time to the ship date from the factory and then add the warranty period to those units. So, some units may technically have a little more than a 5 year warranty, but all units from that distributor will have a solid 5 year warranty. That way, second hand customers do not have to be reliant on the original owners warranty registration. Simple!:)

-Frank
Click to expand...

You sir, are a noble man and one of a vanishing breed. I wish you all the success you deserve for the generosity of spirit you bring to the table.

Seriously. The world needs more businesspeople with your mindset. :):thumbsup:
 
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#70
His prices don't seem ridiculous to me, actually looks pretty affordable for boutique pedals. You run into this kind of eccentric behavior in small business all the time, I wouldn't let the behavior of someone turn me off of a product I want. There's a family owned german restaurant in my town and the owners can be extremely snarky and off putting, but it's the only place I can get a halfway decent Snitzel around here so they still get my business.
 
#71
40Hz said:
Short answer? No. There's no such thing as consumer etiquette other than to pay the price the seller is demanding and to conduct your dealings in good faith.

When you sell something you normally transfer full title to the buyer unless you have some sort of contract or a covenant restricting subsequent resale or transfers. And those clauses are pretty difficult to enforce unless you can show a very compelling reason for needing such a provision. And while it's true you can put anything you want in a contract, it doesn't mean a court will automatically agree it's legal or enforceable. Usually the best you can do is get the right of first refusal to buy your product back from your customer if he or she wants to sell it.
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I was a business major. I get there's nothing binding someone to be a decent person. But when we're talking about a part of the industry made up by a whole bunch of one-person companies, does no fault lie on the buyer/seller for taking advantage of a sale not to get a good deal on a pedal they may want, but to immediately flip it for a higher price? Yes, the situation could have been avoided by AE and yes he could have handled it better, but with this particular industry, I would've thought a community of musicians who love these kinds of products would be a bit more understanding to AE's frustration, even if it was not managed well.
 
#72
I'm not worldly wise enough to know if that sort of hot-headed toxicity is unusually overrepresented within the pedal builder and luthiery community. A couple of days ago I was checking out a bass linked from another forum. The builder (who I won't mention, but Google the text and you will probably find out) asserts:

"We kept the 20 fret neck intact. It’s a bass with easy to reach money notes that was built and designed for a bass player who actually plays bass for a living. If you’re bent over the fact that it doesn’t have 21, 22, or 24 frets, feel free to think about the fact that the guy with the 20 fret bass is making a living while you’re at home trolling youtube videos. Or don’t think about it. Nobody cares what you think."

And...

"I should point out that THAT is actually how all of the top level professional’s order stuff from me. “Uh, I want a five string and uh – I don’t know, maybe blue? Just make it cool.” There are no laundry lists of garbage with agonizing details about nut material and exact pickup placements and magnets. I swear half the guys who order like that just want content to cut and paste for when they sell it at a loss on TB a few days after they get it."

Sign me up for five! If you have a product to sell then I don't understand the whining, burned-out mentality. This is the writing of somebody that clearly prefers to be 'justly wronged' than to either educate or improve their personal circumstances. I've met so many people that prefer to wallow. So many builders want to be the hard-boiled Ted Nugent of their craft. A lot of these builder also never consider hiring a Web Developer so that their websites don't look terrible and amateurish; an odd but not entirely surprising correlation.
 
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#73
SanDiegoHarry said:
Question: are you basing your desire for one of his pedals on what you've read, or first hand experience? If you have played one and dig it, then buy it. If you're just following the buzz... then move along.
Click to expand...

See to me that's what sucks. I tried the Hail Satan Deluxe and it sounded HUGE and bone crushing! I loved it! I only sold it because I didn't have enough room on my board for it. But after reading this, it would make me hesitant to buy any of his stuff. God forbid I buy something used and have an issue and have to pay equal to a new pedal for it. LOL! That's just crazy. I mean, I get trying to drive new sales, but that's the wrong way IMO.

There's no doubt in my mind he makes good stuff. He just needs to ring it in the professionalism department IMO. I mean he can do what he wants, and yes people will still buy, but he's isolating his market that way. Use your personal Facebook and gripe! It's so much better than on your business page. Or hell do it on a forum like all of us do!

I just think it'd be conducive for the longevity of his business to not down talk customers regardless of the situation. You just can't do that. It never turns out right even if you're the one who is in fact in the right.
 
#74
I have bought two of his pedals. An hail Satan deluxe and a sunnbather from the 1st batch.

At first I was on his side and understood his point of view but when my waiting time reached the 6-8 weeks and I regularly saw all his special one off colors and limited pedals being displayed on Facebook, I started to feel like the people complaining about the wait. I felt like he obviously had extra time working that he was doing "extra" things with instead of finishing pedals that are already ordered and payed for.

I sold the hail Satan on reverb and as a selling point mentioned his 8 week waiting period. It sold quickly, I think I listed it at $185.

Him trying to make a point about not buying used since you don't get a warranty is odd to me. If your pedals are made well the warranty shouldn't really be needed so it's almost like he doesn't have faith in his workmanship.

The sunnbather was a mess all around and I ended up getting a refund.

I don't follow his pages anymore because I got annoyed with him ranting about his customers.
 
#75
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#76
MGR said:
I've had my eyes on Abominable Electronics pedals for a while now, but have not pulled the trigger on one. I think the main reason is because there is something about the owner of that company that simply rubs me the wrong way. He seems to be constantly posting about how justified he is to be selling his pedals at their price and how it pisses him off that people only buy during sales. Or he warns people not to buy used because the warranty will be void. He also publicly shames potential customers by revealing their emails to him about the wait times for his pedals and his response always seems to be (paraphrase) "Well, if you don't like it, don't buy one of my pedals." He seems to do stuff like this quite often.

Anyhow, here is his newest rant, quoted directly from Facebook.....

"I never thought anyone would do it but someone appears to have bought a pedal on sale & has posted it at full price right after receiving it and saying the whole "don't wait 8 weeks" thing, i.e: someone is flipping the pedals. If you plan on ever doing this and we catch it, don't be surprised if your name is flagged and future orders are canceled. You have every right to sell a pedal you own, but we have every right to also try to prevent being taken advantage of"


TO me, this was the final straw in me deciding never to buy one of his pedals. Regardless of whether the person bought one to resell, what business is it of Abominable's? There are a million reasons why someone would flip a pedal they just bought. What if a medical emergency came up etc?? Why the public shaming and threats? Is this a good way to run a business?

Someone should tell this guy that yes, his painted enclosures may look cool and his circuits may sound great, but at the end of the day there are dozens of other boutique builders making the same thing (clones) and have much better people skills.

Anyway, there is a big thread on facebook of his fanboys all agreeing with him, but I was curious as to what the pedal buying public thought. My personal opinion is that a buyer has no obligation to the maker to keep their pedal forever and has no obligation not to try to make a little money on it if they can.
Click to expand...

I myself think it's childish and in bad taste to start a thread bashing a company/person you have never dealt with personally and have no intentions of ever doing so (posted by you many times in many different threads) just cause...
I think there should be a rule about these kind of things.
This is a much different thing then if you have been personally screwed over and want to warn people.
 
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#77
rjovin said:
I myself think it's childish and in bad taste to start a thread bashing a company/person you have never dealt with personally and have no intentions of ever doing so (posted by you many times in many different threads) just cause...
I think there should be a rule about these kind of things.
This is a much different thing then if you have been personally screwed over and want to warn people.
Click to expand...
Well, 4 pages of basically overwhelming agreement with my original post tends to make your sour-grapes-filled statement quite baseless, but as it is your opinion I will refrain from going any further with my comment. Like I asked Gregmon79, please put me on your ignore list since you seem to be obsessed with studying my posts for the sole purpose of griping at what I write. If you want to spend your precious time doing that, have at it, but it has no effect whatsoever on what i will do here.
 
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#80
To be fair to the guy, I did just have an email conversation (serious question). Emailed him at 10am and he replied at about 10:42:

ME:
Hey,

Checked your FAQ and didn't see anything about it. Will you do custom paintjobs on pedals?

Thanks!


HIM:
I don't do any custom paintjobs anymore because of the time it takes to do an individual pedal - thanks!


Thanks,
Abominable


ME:
Makes sense. Do you offer clean (unpainted) pedals? Would it take less time to get one if it was ordered without a paintjob?


Thanks again!

HIM:
I only sell them as painted



Well, kind of a bummer and doesn't make sense (less work for the same money?), but at least he wasn't rude about it. Given that he will not sell pedals without the cheesy "blah blah devil satan blah" stuff on it, I'm personally passing. Even in a completely secular band that I'm in right now (and they play Deftones/Tool style music) they'd probably laugh and find it silly with all that stuff on there. Still, all I can say is the guy was at least straightforward with me. Meh :/
 

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