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Does This Pickup Seem Like Anything Other than a Music Man?

#61
MultiScaleMale said:
It mentions that the strap buttons were changed out, so the assumption that the electronics are original would be a reasonable assumption. The buyer probably has cold feet or wants to get some money back, but they will win any disputes.
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Not really. Found the ad, also states "don't ask me I got it like this" before the strap lock bit. The seller knows the strap locks are changed but can change them back, which means a reasonable assumption, if it's indeed reasonable to assume, is they changed the strap locks themselves after purchasing the bass with an unknown history.
I agree if the seller stated "all original except for the strap buttons which I can change back" but they did not.
 
#63
Rabidhamster said:
Not really. Found the ad, also states "don't ask me I got it like this" before the strap lock bit. The seller knows the strap locks are changed but can change them back, which means a reasonable assumption, if it's indeed reasonable to assume, is they changed the strap locks themselves after purchasing the bass with an unknown history.
I agree if the seller stated "all original except for the strap buttons which I can change back" but they did not.
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I think Reverb will side with the buyer.
 
#64
I really sucks that, unless a buyer holds the instrument, plays it, verifies it then, hands you the cash, it not really a sale. In reality, it's just a trial period to be determined by the buyer. IMO, that's kind of lop-sided cause a used instrument can have changes some not obvious to the seller. The need to be some onus on the buyer to ask questions and demand proofs before just buying and then demanding a return/refund. I do understand and approve of retailers offering this on new instruments as that is their choice but to assume that right on a private, used instrument sale is a bit much.

Sorry, OP I feel ya'. To the anonymous buyer, you should have looked closer and, if in doubt, asked for more info or passed.
 
#67
Last year I bought a new Subaru from a nearby dealer. They don't get/sell a huge amount of cars, and they order upscale cars. I was really itchy to get rid of my older car so I had to choose from what they had. When I talked to the sales rep he told me I was getting such a "good deal" because the "upgrades" were discounted "drastically."

I was between a rock and a hard place because my old car was going to provide the down payment and the buyers were chomping at the bit to buy now. So I chose an "upgraded" model even though I wanted a more basic car. I paid probably a thousand more on 'discounted' accessories I didn't need. So it wasn't an upgrade to me. I know I made my decision with full disclosure but availability forced me to make a less desirable choice.

Some people get pretty huffy when they receive an item that wasn't as described. It may have added 'perceived value' to the bass but they want what they want, not the seller's perceived 'upgrades.' As always YMMV.
 
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#69
MultiScaleMale said:
It mentions that the strap buttons were changed out, so the assumption that the electronics are original would be a reasonable assumption. The buyer probably has cold feet or wants to get some money back, but they will win any disputes.
Click to expand...

Yeah this ^^ makes the most sense. The fact that the seller specifically mentions the strap locks mod, which is a relatively trivial thing and had offered the OEM strap pins instead, but fails to mention any other alterations, especially major items like electronics mods, is the same as saying de facto that no other alterations exist. So it's not just a "safe assumption" that the rest of the bass is still 100% stock...it's an unspoken affirmation.

The OP's trustworthiness is not in question here, he no doubt overlooked the Nordy pickup. But that oversight left him vulnerable to a buyer demanding a return/refund, even if it's for buyer's remorse or any reason at all. And that buyer will likely win any dispute by reason of seller's failure at full disclosure. Them's the rulz.

Looking at the Reverb listing, more pics might have helped, especially a close-up of the pickup so the little "N" could be clearly seen. And yes, as pedantic as it surely is, more detailed info always helps. Even explaining details like the truss rod working properly, neck straight, bridge saddles, screws, no scratchy pots, etc. Virtually every imaginable detail...mention it. It helps reassure potential buyers, and saves them the trouble of having to ask all those questions. Moreover, it reduces risks that can lead to what the OP is going through right now. Hate to be "that guy" but sorry, this chaos could have been avoided.

Good luck, hope things work out amicably, despite the buyer being an obvious dikk.
 
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#70
LT131 said:
I really sucks that, unless a buyer holds the instrument, plays it, verifies it then, hands you the cash, it not really a sale. In reality, it's just a trial period to be determined by the buyer. IMO, that's kind of lop-sided cause a used instrument can have changes some not obvious to the seller. The need to be some onus on the buyer to ask questions and demand proofs before just buying and then demanding a return/refund. I do understand and approve of retailers offering this on new instruments as that is their choice but to assume that right on a private, used instrument sale is a bit much.

Sorry, OP I feel ya'. To the anonymous buyer, you should have looked closer and, if in doubt, asked for more info or passed.
Click to expand...

Fair points, all. But there already is an implied onus on buyers....caveat emptor. Still, that implied onus is in direct conflict with ebay and Reverb selling policy, which in no uncertain terms (as I understand them) requires full disclosure from sellers. Somewhere in between the two lies a "grey area" which can be open to interpretation.

What to do? As a buyer, ask about every conceivable aspect that isn't already addressed in the listing. As a seller, describe/disclose every imaginable aspect in the listing.

Assume nothing, assumptions are the mother of all.....
 
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#71
Iridescentone said:
Fair points, all. But there already is an implied onus on buyers....caveat emptor. Still, that implied onus is in direct conflict with ebay and Reverb selling policy, which in no uncertain terms (as I understand them) requires full disclosure from sellers. Somewhere in between the two lies a "grey area" which can be open to interpretation.

What to do? As a buyer, ask about every conceivable aspect that isn't already addressed in the listing. As a seller, describe/disclose every imaginable aspect in the listing.

Assume nothing, assumptions are the mother of all.....
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If it were caveat emptor online, nobody would buy anything online.
 
#74
bovinehost said:
View attachment 3576179 View attachment 3576176

I sold this on Reverb and everyone was happy as a clam but now this goombah claims this is not an original MM pickup.

Frankly, I've had "a few" Stingrays and - well, you tell me.

He's calling me names and going to report me to the CIA and so on.

Fun times.
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Sent you a PM. I have a few spare OEM SR4 pickups and would be happy to part with one if you need it.
 
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#75
bovinehost said:
View attachment 3576179 View attachment 3576176

I sold this on Reverb and everyone was happy as a clam but now this goombah claims this is not an original MM pickup.

Frankly, I've had "a few" Stingrays and - well, you tell me.

He's calling me names and going to report me to the CIA and so on.

Fun times.
Click to expand...

Any person that begins a conversation regarding gear with an accusation rather than a question is probably a person you want little or nothing to do with. If it is a Nordstrand pickup (I cannot see the N in the pictures you posted) then the person got a great bass with an oft upgraded pickup. I would not lose sleep over this goombah
 
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#76
KeithPas said:
I would not lose sleep over this goombah
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Except they will open a dispute claim. As a seller, you need to deal with customers regardless of how they start a conversation. I don't think bovine host did anything intentional, but it does have a non OEM pickup and wasn't mentioned in the details. Personally, I'd be fine with a Nordstrand pickup, but I think the lesson here is to make sure you accurately describe and photograph items you'er selling. 90% of the time something like this happens, the buyer is either having cold feet, their spouse is pissed or they are doing the BS where they try to get $100 off anything they can find to effectively lower their purchase price through a partial refund. Any time someone tries that with me, I tell them to return the item and I'll issue a full refund. Because I usually sell for pretty good prices and they generally don't want to return the item for reals.
 
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#77
MultiScaleMale said:
Except they will open a dispute claim. As a seller, you need to deal with customers regardless of how they start a conversation. I don't think bovine host did anything intentional, but it does have a non OEM pickup and wasn't mentioned in the details. Personally, I'd be fine with a Nordstrand pickup, but I think the lesson here is to make sure you accurately describe and photograph items you'er selling. 90% of the time something like this happens, the buyer is either having cold feet, their spouse is pissed or they are doing the BS where they try to get $100 off anything they can find to effectively lower their purchase price through a partial refund. Any time someone tries that with me, I tell them to return the item and I'll issue a full refund. Because I usually sell for pretty good prices and they generally don't want to return the item for reals.
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I agree 100%. You have to deal with the individual through the prescribed means and not by trading nasty emails (I am not suggesting the OP would do this but many would). I do not see the Nordstrand logo on the pickup so I am not sure that is even an issue. The OP said that the buyers complaint seemed to be that because bassist Johnny Long had this bass with a Kent Armstrong pickup then this bass should have the same pickup and that it obviously wrong and easily verified as being so.
 
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#79
KeithPas said:
I agree 100%. You have to deal with the individual through the prescribed means and not by trading nasty emails (I am not suggesting the OP would do this but many would). I do not see the Nordstrand logo on the pickup so I am not sure that is even an issue. The OP said that the buyers complaint seemed to be that because bassist Johnny Long had this bass with a Kent Armstrong pickup then this bass should have the same pickup and that it obviously wrong and easily verified as being so.
Click to expand...

In the OP, he said that the seller said it wasn't an original MM pickup and it's not. From the Reverb sale page, the second picture definitely shows a N on the pickup, so he/she's right that it's not an OEM pickup. It's difficult to tell from the pic, you have to zoom in, but it's there. So, is that enough disclosure? I'm 50/50 on that.

Music Man Stingray 4 with piezo bridge Tobacco Burst
 
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