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Does vinyl sound better?

#121
vinyl sounds more realistic. the problem is, it takes an 800$ turntable to outperform a 200$ cd player. i use a 750$ cartridge, at that level the difference is more obvious. as a side note my $2200 turntable outperforms my 7000$ krell cd player ! johnny a. staind
 
#122
bucephylus said:
I just think people tend to remember good things and forget the not so good. IMO.
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True dat.
I just watched a Twilight Zone episode on that very subject.

and it does seem that things are much better while you're remembering them, than while they were actually happening.

Now I forgot what my point was actually gonna be.
Anyway, I'll take CDs.Technology has come a long way..lets enjoy it.
 
#123
brendanbassist said:
The bolded portion of your quote is ONLY true of the noise due to quantization error. Now I'm done. Go read a textbook if you still don't get it.
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No, it isn't. You seem to have an interest in the digital side of the system, but you are lacking a basic understanding of how a recording studio works. And that's an unfortunate pairing with your condescending attitude and your insistence on repeating your mistakes without any sort of support or willingness to revisit them or consider that the topic may not be what you think it is.

Every studio that records analog signals has to deal with analog noise. This has been a battle since the first generation of recording technology. It will probably never be completely won, but the noise floor has gotten lower and lower. The single biggest advantage of 24 bit digital conversion and the main reason for it's popularity is the additional dynamic range - specifically because we can track at conservative levels and still have the ANALOG noise floor so low that it doesn't pose a problem.

You just cannot put the analog noise floor 124 db away from digital zero in a 16 bit system, period. It should be completely obvious that pushing that noise floor as far away from your maximum level is a good thing to do.

This is not a topic that you will find in a textbook on DSP design - it's simply outside the scope of that subject. However, it has been covered very extensively as a matter of audio recording technique. You might want to start with some introductory articles on that topic, such as those I previously linked.
 
#124
Munjibunga said:
Vinyl sucks. CDs are the best thing that ever happened to music. No clicks, pops, rumble.
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And the 100th play is just as good as the first play.

I never understood this debate because the differences should be readily apparent, but there is about 5 times more misinformation in the audio world than real information.

The music and the medium are two separate entities. The CD medium presents the music exactly as it was mastered. Vinyl changes the dynamic range of the music that was recorded and adds its own background noise.

For some people that is pleasing and I can understand why. High fidelity isn't necessarily pleasing to the ear, I remember having a musical epiphany listening to a song I knew on cassette through a pair of old speakers and the overall system colored it it a nice warm fuzz that just lit that song up.

When I listen to Motown tunes, they often sound better to me on AM radio than on a high end system. Sometimes a mediums inherent color does work and accentuate the music, but that color is still there when it doesn't work too. A CD lets you decide for yourself how it can be colored.

Makes me wonder if anyone has made a 'vinyl pedal' for home stereos to add that scratchy empty tunnel sound to a CD recording.
 
#128
seamonkey said:
CD's do have a shelf life.
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Many people have made this claim but so far nobody's been able to properly support it.

Rothenberg's study (the most famous by far) concluded to a shelf life of 5 to 60 years. Which should be revised to 15 to 60 years, since his study is other 10 year old and CDs haven't yet shown any shelf life issue.

Even if they DO have a shelf life, they still don't get used when you play them, like vinyls do.
 
#129
When considering "CD shelf life" you need to differentiate between "stamped" CDs (like an album you buy in a store) vs. CD-Rs which you burn yourself. CD-Rs can be problematic. A properly manufactured "stamped" CD should last a LONG time.

I still have one of the first CDs ever issued: Springsteen's Born to Run. It came free (in the US anyway) with the first CD player ever offered to the consumer market, the Sony CDP-101. That Springsteen CD still plays perfectly despite being like 28 years old.
 
#130
Hey folks, I was searching vinyl content on the web and google brought me here. Answering the main question of this topic and ignoring all the physics behind an analog and digital record, is that it depends because in the end, only you can judge what you`ll hear best, it`s something 100% personal.

It may didn`t answered well, but I`ll give you a tip of how to find your answer. Try to google some torrent and find a ''24-96'' vinyl rip of an album that you like. Do the same for a CD rip if you don`t have it. Listen to them in the same sound system and here is your answer: If the vinyl rip sound better for you, then an original vinyl would sound even better, if the CD version sounds better for you, don`t waste your money with vinyl.

Now I`ll let you my personal opinion. I don`t have any turbtable yet (I live in Brazil and that kind of stuff is astronomically expensive), that`s why I download vinyl rips. Some vinyl rips sound better than my original CDs and some doesn`t. Coldplay sounds absolutely better on vinyl, in the other hand, I can`t tell you if Broken Boy Soldiers from Racounteurs is better, you know? Hope I helped you!
 
#131
Whether one system or another sounds "better" is a matter purely of personal preference. But in terms of fidelity (low distortion, low noise, consistently accurate playback) modern digital stuff is way more capable than the technology used to turn out mass-produced vinyl LPs was.
 
#133
For CD:

limited deterioration over time/repeated plays

dynamic range, especially in the deep bass, and much lower noise floor

convenience

inexpensive players can sound ok, whereas you may need to spend $7-800 for an entry-level turntable and cartridge of any quality, and prices can skyrocket from there.

Against CD:

Lacks resolution of vinyl - digital approximation of an analog phenomenon (real sound!) People describe this as "warmth" or "wholeness" - but however you perceive it, that's the reason.

"redbook" CD (the standard) cuts off all frequencies above 22k. you can't hear that high, but many think it makes a difference nonetheless.


So CD has a lot going for it. And other digital storage modes, with greater resolution still, could be very hip.

But vinyl generally can demonstrably sound more engaging, particularly if you have a decent turntable and cartridge.


And if you are seriously listening, what's most important to you?

I use both, and am thinking about plunging into the brave new world of audio servers.
 
#136
It's a bit of an unfair comparison. Since the advent of the CD (and I rememeber my collection of vinyl very well) the mastering process has significantly changed. There's the whole 'loudness wars' thing, and very few are using the dynamic range of the CD medium to its full advantage.

Vinyl was/is pretty good, but didn't really have the same dynamic range (although, as previously noted in the thread, the equipment needed for playback is important). The mastering was different, and vinyl was mastered to the capabilities of the medium (but the whole CBS approach of 'squishing' was horrible - pull out your Journey albums from the early 80s for comparison).

If mastering of CDs was really attuned to the dynamic range of the CD (and in few instances this does happen), and not to making it as loud as possible, it would really change the playing field.
 
#138
Don't know if this has already been said but I looked into this a while back when I got a record player. From what I gather, vinyl is an unbroken representation of a wave and so it's clearer and fuller. It's analog. And a cd, digital, is small little snapshots of the wave. So it's less linear and continuous(spelling sorry). The higher the quality recording, the more snapshots and more similar to the actual wave. So I guess better is not the word but vinyl is more natural. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#139
I don't care what sounds better, I love the sound of vinyl. It resonates differently to me. The main reason, however, is that we're constantly on the run, playing music through little devices. The relationship between the person and the music suffers. I like to sit down, actually take time out to listen, have a great big cover, hopefully gatefold picture, to look at and liner notes to read etc. It's like taking time out to read rather than using an audiobook in your car, or something of the like. If it's something I really love, I'll try get it on vinyl so I can have those moments. I'll also get that music that I really love in mp3 files, but I'll get crap in mp3 that I won't bother with on vinyl.
 

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